Good timing

Post by **markattard** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:34 am

Could anyone pl explain the proceedure for timing a 1098 engine, I'm finding it impossible to see the timing marks on the timing chain cover, mine are at the bottom , is this a standard thing?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:14 am

Just run it and listen for any 'pinking' when you accelerate up a slight hill in top gear. No pinking - then advance it slightly until you do get pinking - then retard slightly till there is none. Job done. You have now optimised your engine for the grade of petrol you are using. The other check worth doing is on the vacuum advance unit - remove the dizzy cap - suck on the little vacuum pipe - you should feel a high vacuum and the dizzy plate should move slightly - and relax back when you stop sucking. If there is no vacuum - then the diaphragm is burst - if there is vacuum but the plate doesn't move - then it's stuck! Remedies are obvious.

Post by **JimK** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:22 am

OK, dumb question: what does pinking sound like? Can you describe it?

This is the first time I've run a car without an ECU, so I'm not sure what I'm listening for.

Post by **alex_holden** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:30 am

It's a sort of quiet tinkling sound, in time with the cylinders firing.

Post by **chickenjohn** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:49 am

Pinking sounds like ballbearings being rattled around in a can. To make timing marks visible put a spot of white paint (or tippex!) on the timing chain marks and on the notch in the pulley.

Post by **markattard** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:29 pm

My problem is the timing marks are behind radiator cannot point the strobe light to it! any ideas how this is done?

Post by **simmitc** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Do it by the static method - check for coming up to compression on No 1, then lie down with your head under the car and align the marks by turning the starting handle. They go 10, 5, and 0 BTDC. 1098 should go on about 3-4 with unleaded. Now adjust the distributor until you get the spark / points open.

For most engines that should be fine. Then as mentioned above, if there's any pinking just retard a little. Big adjustments made by slackening dizzy clamp and turning body, small adjustments by using knurled knob on end of vacuum unit.

Post by **markattard** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:57 pm

Thanks simmitc Can you do this with the electronic ignition ? (Lumenition- Magnetronic kit) and how?

Post by **simmitc** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:05 pm

Yes. The only difference is that the points won't be there to open, but as the black disk with the metal inserts passes over the pick-up it should still trigger a spark, which can be seen by using a plug lead from coil to suitable earth point (leaving a small gap for the spark to jump!) or by using the timing light. I have found that the electronic units sometimes need a bit of a twist on the distributer cam to get enough speed for the pick-up to work. In this case it's a question of trial and error; but usually gets it close enough to use. With electronic units then ultimately you will probably need to degrease the timing marks, paint them white, and then get long enough leads to allow the timing light to reach under the car. It is quite easy to see the marks from underneath. As ever, be careful about loose leads, fingers, and moving parts.

Hope that gets you going.

Post by **chickenjohn** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:23 pm

double post!

Post by **chickenjohn** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:23 pm

markattard wrote:My problem is the timing marks are behind radiator cannot point the strobe light to it! any ideas how this is done?

Lie underneath the car with the engine running (be careful- the fan is higher up the rad and is moving very quickly) and you can see the timing marks and pulley. I connect the timing light between lead no 1 and plug no 1 and dangle the light down by the side of the engine. Shine the strobe light up and you'll see the two white dots you painted on the pulley slot and timing marks.

Be careful when working under the car.

Post by **Axolotl** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:50 pm

If you use a strobe light, as described above, don't forget that the timing will need to be more advanced. The workshop manual gives 6 degrees for dynamic timing, compared to 3 for static. If you set it up with the light, then check the static afterwards, they should be different.

Also, try to get the engine ticking over as slow as possible but still smooth, as at 600 revs, the automatic advance weights in the distributor will start advancing the timing even more. On mine, you're looking at about 10 degrees advanced by the time the tickover is "normal".

It also helps if you have two people. One can crawl under the car and work the light and watch the timing marks while the other fiddles with the distibutor to get it just right.

Don't expect the pulley mark to appear rock solid. Wear in the distributor, timing chain etc., will tend to make it dance around a bit. You're looking for an average sort of position, and it isn't an exact science on a worn engine.

A road test afterwards should prove you've got it right, because there shouldn't be any "pinking", but if there is, then as posted above, retard the ignition slightly using the vernier adjustment knob on the distributor a couple of clicks at a time, until it disappears. The standard timing settings are for an engine in good nick and are a happy medium. Each individual engine will have slight differences, according to the state of the engine, the fuel you use and the way you drive.

Finally, "pinking" is a light metallic rattle in time with the cylinders firing. It sounds a bit like timing chain rattle, but you can distinguish between them because pinking will happen only when you are accelerating (try 25 up to 35 on a slight uphill gradient), whereas timing chain rattle is more or less constant, or more pronounced on the overrun and at higher speds.

Once you've heard it, you'll know.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:45 pm

There really is no need to fiddle with static timing/lights etc - it's meaningless anyway - 'pinking' is the judge and jury on this. Modern car engine does this all the time - it constantly advances the timing until it senses pinking - then backs off again. Of course it does it several times per second!! If I drive my Meriva with the window open - put my foot down - there is just the slightest 'pink' as the car accelerates away. So just advance till pinking is heard (the word supposedly describes how it sounds) and then back off very slightly.

Post by **nebogipfel** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:23 pm

If you want timing marks just make your own visible from above.

Not just random marks ........... you now what I mean

Post by **markattard** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:54 pm

Which way is to advance? clockwise or clockwise-not?

Post by **Axolotl** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:45 pm

Anti-clockwise to advance, clockwise to retard.

That applies whether you are referring to the distrutor body, or the knurled wheel on the vacuum advance unit.

Post by **Axolotl** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:51 pm

More on that...

The distributor should have a small double arrow marked "A" and "R" on the casting near the vacuum unit that shows which way the wheel goes. it is anti-clockwise to advance if you are looking from the wheel end towards the vacuum unit.

Post by **markattard** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:23 am

Which way is to advance? clockwise or clockwise-not?

Post by **Axolotl** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:23 am

Clockwise not.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:48 pm

No - the rotor arm rotates anti-clockwise - so to advance the timing you must turn the dizzy clockwise. The little wheel thing is clearly marked which way to turn iut - but the change it makes in the timing is very limited.