indicator wiring

[jeff-d]

hi, i have a 1959 4 door morris minor 945 engine, i have replaced the indicator stalk ( esm) but i am having problem with the wiring there are six wires coming from it green-white-green-red which i know go to either side which are connected,, A earth wire and the wire for the horn a wire for the stalk light all conected just leaves the green and yellow which comes from the centre connection on the switch, just read 451 pages on here and i am still no further foward,does anyone know where this wire goes, as i dont have that wirer connected i tried the indicators to see if there was any life in them and the stalk light was flashing left -right- and when it was in park cheers

[jeff-d]

i have now got the indicators working and trying to fit a hazard switch all wiring to hazard switch sorted except the two wires that are supposed to go to the ingnition switch wire that goes to the indicator tin can but i have a 1959 minor and the wire from the ign switch goes to the fuse box not the tin can so where does the two wires connect too, i have been through 4 tin cans trying to sort the problem out cheers

[svenedin]

I am no expert in wiring I’ll say straight away. I am not quite sure which two wires you have remaining from your hazard switch installation. What colour are those two wires and what switch/kit are you installing? I managed to fit hazards on mine without too much trouble. I also installed a new indicator stalk and I agree with you that it’s confusing because the wiring does not follow the proper colour code.

I think (but I am guessing here) that the 2 wires you have left are to interrupt the standard indicators when you activate the hazard switch. This is so the indicators cannot work at the same time as you have the hazards on. The “tin can” relay has 3 connections; power in, flashed power out and pilot (for the tell tale on the end of the indicator stalk). IF (and only if) I guessed correctly about the 2 wires you have left then they basically break the circuit of the power in wire to the tin can. So you find that wire, cut it somewhere convenient and then connect one cut end to one of your wires and the other cut end to the other of your wires. The standard can relay for the indicators may be marked B L P or X L P. L=load (flashed output) P=pilot lamp so the input is X or B with a green wire (light green goes to pilot).

[Bill_qaz]

Mine is wired independently with a fused supply constant positive and earth, it should be able operate with the key off. Two of hazard flasher outputs used for left and right as front and rear do not need separate feeds. One is usually the supply to flasher switch rerouted to the four-way switch and output back to flasher switch.that is the L from flasher can in the attached diagram.
The idea being the flasher switch has no supply when hazard switch is on. This feature is not used on my minor with no issues. But is how I've just fitted on to 50s landrover.
Did you get a diagram with the hazard kit? Such as

Screenshot_20230415-164026_Samsung Internet.jpg (109.96 KiB) Viewed 1145 times

[jeff-d]

thanks Stephen and Bill i will have another look tomorrow, the hazard switch i got from esm i think it was about £28 the two wires i have left are both green and red i did get the instrutions with the switch but they dont match the wiring on the car (i dont have the wire from the ignition switch going to the x on the tin can, mine goes to the fuse box, three connections on the tin can (x goes to fuse box) p goes to the pilot light ) and (l goes to the 8 way relay box. cheers

[Bill_qaz]

thanks Stephen and Bill i will have another look tomorrow, the hazard switch i got from esm i think it was about £28 the two wires i have left are both green and red i did get the instrutions with the switch but they dont match the wiring on the car (i dont have the wire from the ignition switch going to the x on the tin can, mine goes to the fuse box, three connections on the tin can (x goes to fuse box) p goes to the pilot light ) and (l goes to the 8 way relay box. cheers

So you have a 3 pin flasher can but that's independent of the hazard unit that has its own.
Unless you want to use the facility of switching off the flasher switch when hazards are active they do not need to be. You can just take the hazard unit out puts to the indicators wires at the most convenient point. Although your flasher can supply is coming from the fuse box it's still controlled by the ignition switch if your indicators do not work when key off.

[geoberni]

Oh dear...
I've typed all this once before and for some reason my PC closed the tab before I posted it

Let's clear up some things.

i have now got the indicators working and trying to fit a hazard switch all wiring to hazard switch sorted except the two wires that are supposed to go to the ingnition switch wire that goes to the indicator tin can but i have a 1959 minor and the wire from the ign switch goes to the fuse box not the tin can so where does the two wires connect too, i have been through 4 tin cans trying to sort the problem out cheers

Your first problem is that you car never had Indicators when it was built, just non flashing Trafficators, so whatever indicator system you have connected to the Stalk is an aftermarket system, the quality of the installation will not be to 'factory standard', it is an unknown, even if fitted by a Dealer.
Your second problem is that you don't know what you're doing if you've somehow wrecked 4 'tin cans'....

When Hazard Light Switches became available in the 1970s as an aftermarket purchase, they simply made all the indicators flash without the Ign Sw being on. You don't want to have the Ign on and risk burning the Coil out if you break down.
So that's all they were, a switch that operated the indicators as a warning system.
I can only assume that after some years, industry experience showed that some people had operated the Hazards, while the Ign was on and the Indicator switch was also on, and that gave unexpected results, perhaps making unsynchronised flashing, but that irrelevant. The result was that when fitting to new cars at build, and in later aftermarket home fits for older cars, they introduced a way to disable the Indicator circuit when the Hazard Sw was operated.

Just because your diagram shows a connection from the Ign Sw to the Indicator Flasher Unit, the 'tin can' as you called it, doesn't mean it comes directly from the switch, it's just trying to tell you that it is a 'Switched Live' NOT a 'permanent live' feed from the battery. They just haven't drawn a fuse...

So the kit you have fitted takes a permanent live supply and via the Hazard Sw, connects it to your indicator wiring.
You then have 2 other wires, which should be Green/Purple but you say yours are Green/Red.
That is the indicator switch disabling facility.

So hopefully the Indicator 'Tin Can' is mounted somewhere that the 2 Green/? wires from the Hazard Switch will reach to.
Just remove that Green supply wire, connect one of the Green Stripe wires to the green cable and the other one to the Lug that you just removed the Green Cable from.
So your Green feed electricity now goes up to the Hazard Sw and back down the other striped wire to the Tin Can again.
Now your indicators should be working still, but if your Hazards are switched on the Indicator tin can will be disabled and not have a fight with the Hazard tin can over who's flashing what!

If the 2 wires from the Hazard sw don't reach to the Indicator tin can, then you will have to decide it you want to move the tin can or just cut the Green wire perhaps behind the Dash.
Or you could just tie them up somewhere and try not to use the hazard switch and the Indicators at the same time.......

[jeff-d]

i have all the wiring now connected, as i dont have wire coming from the ignition to the tin can x (wire from x to fuse box on this car) so cut this wire and joined the two wires i had left to either end, the hazard warning light and the hazard relay is working but the indicators on the four corners are not, The 8 connector relay is also clicking away there does not seem to be any power going to the the wires that feed the 4 corners, the no4 and no 8 connections on the relay come from the indicator switch, i put a test light light on these two connections and it lit up but no power reaching the rest i wonder if i could do away with this relay and wirer it up a different way cheers

[geoberni]

The 8 connector relay is also clicking away there does not seem to be any power going to the the wires that feed the 4 corners, the no4 and no 8 connections on the relay come from the indicator switch, i put a test light light on these two connections and it lit up but no power reaching the rest i wonder if i could do away with this relay and wirer it up a different way cheers

Oh ruddy hell......8 Connector Relay?
No wonder you're having problems understanding it all.

Sounds like you've got at least part of the wiring for the DB10 Relay system, that was designed only for cars '61 to '63, to flash the Brake Lights as Rear Indicators and the front side lights were given a twin 21/5w lamp, to provide a white side light and a white indicator.

Back to square one.
It's pointless trying to diagnose the problems without seeing the car, at least in pictures.
Quite honestly, it needs a competent electrically minded person to work it all out in person.
Unless you can post photos of
1- the overall car, front and rear and
2 - close-ups of the front and rear lamp units, with the covers off
3 - close ups showing the DB10 relay and the 'tin can' in the engine bay.

My '55 had been modified with the DB10 system, then bastardised to bypass most of it and have the DB 10 working just indicators for no real reason ....
But I've undone almost all of the bastardisation to have most of it working as intended.

I know why you're having the problem, we've all been trying to explain the conventional system and your DB10 system is far more complicated.
Your Flasher 'tin can' outputs to Terminal 1 of the DB10. Your Indicator sw goes to 4 & 8 as you have already surmised.
You need to understand how the DB10 controls everything, because it is intended to flash the Brake Light whether the brakes are being operated or not.

How many wires does the Hazard Sw have for connecting to the 'indicators', 2 or 4?

[jeff-d]

2 wires go from the hazard switch to the indicators, the indicators work okay with one of the wires (l) from the tin can to the no 1 terminal of the relay, its a 59 morris minor with trafficators which work and if you have a bmc workshop manual its page N38 wiring diagram i have been working off there you can see the relay and where all the wires go, when i was trying to sort out the wiring for the hazards and trying different wires all the four corners did light up at one point but the wires were not connected to where they should be, i just wonder if the relay is on its way out, yet i do have a connection to the relay from the tin can which works the indicators okay, its a brain teaser there must be someone on here who has done this on a 59 model cheers

[geoberni]

Ahh...
I had an original 1970s Hazard Sw in my collection (having stored it for 40 years, I knew it would come in useful one day)....
It has 4 outputs, so I just had to connect it to 2,3,6 & 7, a direct feed to each lamp.

What we need to know is how your system was working before you tried to add the Hazard Sw.
That's why I said we need photos, a picture speaks a 1,000 words and all that..


This is how mine are connected, where I've fitted the Hazard sw and reinstated the Trafficators, with relays so I can isolate the Trafficators when I want to.

Trafficator Circuit.jpg (94.96 KiB) Viewed 1060 times