Cashless Society

[stuffedpike20]

I have heard that it is coming in about 5 years time. Rishi Sunak has welcomed the move on environmental grounds. (?)

Last year Canadian truck drivers went on strike. Apparently, Trudeau froze their online bank accounts to force them back to work, AND the bank accounts of individuals who supported the truckers.

I don't have, or want, a smartphone, and I don't do online banking. I use cash whenever I can, and still use my cheque book when permitted.

When we re-join the EU we will be forced to have the EURO.

I want to always have the option of using cash. What are my chances?

[geoberni]

Well certainly probable that as many opinions going to come up here as there are days in the year, perhaps even more.

The Pandemic proved how easy it is for society to move to Cashless, with people scared to touch anything or handle grubby notes.
Just a note here, it's believed that it's nigh on impossible to find a $1 Bill in the USA which isn't contaminated with 'Coke' and I don't mean the brown drink...
Even vendors like Ice Cream Vans are taking Cards after the Pandemic.
I would say I can go weeks without spending cash; but some sectors haven't adapted as well as others, particularly restaurants. Some will enable a gratuity to be added to the card machine, but many don't, yet, probably due to their software needing updating.

I don't think I've sent a cheque for anything in years.

I recently retired from running my own small business for 11 years. It was a BtoB consultancy and training, no goods sold, no public involved, and I only had one customer/client for a few years that paid by cheque. An engineering firm in Leicester who ran their business 'old school' not paying invoices until the day they were due, and even then sending a cheque.
It was solely for their benefit I changed my T&Cs to give notice that any invoice was not considered paid until any cheque had cleared.
I'm sure it will come, but I doubt it will be for another few decades. There's too many 'First World' nations who are not nearly as advanced as we are in terms of banking and it will need a great deal of international cooperation to go the whole way.

As to your EU/Euro comment, I doubt that will happen for decades either, if ever.
And that's a whole different question....

[rocco]

Cash in king. Use it or lose it. The problem is too many youngsters are naive and ignorant to the corruption of Governments. Whilst even I can agree that paying by debit cards, watches and mobile phones is convenient, that data is and has been for a long time, used by large marketing firms to target folk. They have massive databases of people and their habits and we've seen how easily that data can be stored, shared and abused. Remember Cambridge Analytica?

Even after hearing how large corporations use and abuse our data, most people just don't care and will only ever wake up to it once they are negatively impacted. So far, very few people have been.

The only way we keep cash in the long term is when more people start using it today.

[myoldjalopy]

This objective of doing away with cash will have serious negative consequences for ordinary people who will be monitored and controlled - and punished......note that, in addition to Trudeau, various people in this country have had bank accounts closed recently because the banks didn't like the political views of the account owners. And I don't think that it is only young people who are blind to the sinister possibilities of this direction of travel - a friend of mine says he doesn't use cash any more because he doesn't like having pockets full of loose change. I pointed out to him that that 'inconvenience' is down to his failure to manage his cash properly and not make every payment with a banknote. As 'rocco' says, 'most people just don't care and will only ever wake up to it once they are negatively impacted' - and by then it may be too late....
Having said that, I do use a debit card for many purchases, although I also make a point of using cash and cheques at other times. Trouble is, the price of everything has gone up so much I keep having to withdraw cash as it doesn't last very long any more!

[stuffedpike20]

Cash in king. Use it or lose it. The problem is too many youngsters are naive and ignorant to the corruption of Governments. Whilst even I can agree that paying by debit cards, watches and mobile phones is convenient, that data is and has been for a long time, used by large marketing firms to target folk. They have massive databases of people and their habits and we've seen how easily that data can be stored, shared and abused. Remember Cambridge Analytica?

Even after hearing how large corporations use and abuse our data, most people just don't care and will only ever wake up to it once they are negatively impacted. So far, very few people have been.

The only way we keep cash in the long term is when more people start using it today.

The trouble is rocco, LESS people are using cash, not more; and I can't see anything changing that.

There is a small town near me where there used to be three banks, and two building societies. Now they have all gone.
People have to use a tiny Post Office, or online banking. 'Use it or lose it'. Most people seem happy to lose it.

[stuffedpike20]

I think there was a story in the press last week of a car park where it cost MORE to park if you used cash.

The 'excuse' was that a worker had to go there to empty the cash box.

What are we all going to do with ourselves when A.I. takes over and we have a cashless society?

[Chief]

I already live in a cashless society - I'm broke

The trouble is, like the EV infastructure, sometimes these things just don't work all the time.

A taxi driver (taking me for my first booster during the pandemic) had to take me to a bank machine, because his card machine was broken.

I've had my phone battery fail, this means that I can't authenticate myself (until a replacement battery was bought and fitted) with some financial sites.

If you need to take out more money from a bank machine than it allows or your card allows, you can't go to the bank for it, because they shut down years ago. Obviously you can point out bank transfers through online banking, but sometimes it's a bad idea to pay for things by bank transfer.

On the plus side, no more penny and tupenny stench on your hands

[les]

Well, we all have bad days but all the time you have humans who think, you’ll get new ideas develop , which in turn can enter society. An example of thinking being useful, would be the development of ideas that moved us on from the Iron Age ! There are of course ideas and thoughts that are not so good but that’s human nature.

[stuffedpike20]

I hope that geoberni is correct that a cashless society is decades away, but I strongly suspect that he is wrong.

We are sleepwalking into an A.I. future that we do not question and trust far too much in my opinion.

[stuffedpike20]

Well, we all have bad days but all the time you have humans who think, you’ll get new ideas develop , which in turn can enter society. An example of thinking being useful, would be the development of ideas that moved us on from the Iron Age ! There are of course ideas and thoughts that are not so good but that’s human nature.

If only it was about HUMAN thought Les.

I heard an American A.I. expert on the radio a couple of years ago say some interesting things.
Firstly the 'Gorilla Question'. If I understood it correctly, it goes like this...At one time in evolution, gorillas and humans were at a similar stage of development. Then humans started using tools, and making weapons etc. At some stage, the humans could have decided to kill all of the gorillas in the World and eradicate them.
Humans are now the gorillas. and A.I. the 'humans'.

Secondly....If you ask a computer 'How would you stop climate change?' the computer says 'Kill all of the humans'.
If you say to the computer, 'Because of Azimov's Law, you cannot kill the humans'. the computer says 'Stop the humans having babies'.

Every time someone goes on their smart phone or computer on the internet, they are adding to the massive algorithm that will eventually cause us harm. The idea that computers can only do what humans programme them to do is gone.

Back in 1974 there was a spoof movie called 'Dark Star'. There are clips of it on youtube. Bomb number 20 decides that it is God......Amazing that someone making a spoof film in 1974 may have predicted our future.

[myoldjalopy]

Actually, many dystopian future films of the past seem less like fantasy now. I believe 'stuffedpike20' is broadly correct and that we may be sleepwalking towards our doom. It seems to me that many are losing the ability, or desire, to think critically for themselves and thus play into the hands of those that wish to control us

[les]

If only it was about HUMAN thought Les.

Wasn’t it human thought that is/ was developing AI ?

[stuffedpike20]

If only it was about HUMAN thought Les.

Wasn’t it human thought that is/ was developing AI ?

I know what you mean Les, but the point is that the A.I. is now thinking for itself. In many ways it does not need humans anymore.

I know that you get that point.

[simmitc]

On the subject of cash, I am pleased to report that our local independent bakery accepts only cash. A traditional hardware store in a nearby town prefers cash - no commission charges. On the downside, another hardware/homeware store will not accept any cash, and a local car park required us to pay 80p by card. Ridiculous!

The media seem to have gone into a frenzy over the "cost of living crisis" and advising people how to budget. It appears that one of the simplest forms of budgeting is to have cash in a purse or pocket so that it is visible how much one has and is spending; far better than an invisible notional figure om a bank account.

My greatest concern about the cashless idea is, as others have mentioned, that everything one does is tracked and monitored, and can be rmeoved from you at the press of a button.

[stuffedpike20]

For the first time this year, I was unable to buy my fishing rod license with cash from the Post Office.

It had to be bought online or via telephone using a debit card. I assume that the Post Office owner would have got a few pennies for each license sold.

On that subject...look at how a faulty computer programme was believed, instead of hard working, honest Post Office workers a few years ago.....

[Blaketon]

So far as I know, it is still illegal to refuse legal tender, in settlement of a debt. In terms of coinage, that means up to a full bank bag of said denomination, so the council could refuse your monthly council tax in bronze. Alas many large organisations seem to act is if they are above the law or that their legal departments can make it.

If only it was about HUMAN thought Les.

Wasn’t it human thought that is/ was developing AI ?

From what I have seen, A.I. = G.S. (Genuine stupidity).

[KeithL]

I'm in the process of selling various unwanted car parts and accessories. £20 here, £40 there. How would that work in a cashless society? Presumably I would have to give out my bank details every time, as if selling online isn't enough of a risk already.

Also, what happens at shows, where you are in a field in the middle of nowhere and none of the vendors can get a signal for their card machines? It happened recently to me and I had to pay cash.

I can see all sorts of problems looming but I suspect it will be slowly forced on upon us. Hopefully someone will come up with a technology solution before then.

[stuffedpike20]

Thanks for the interesting replies everyone.

People have on their phones their bank, their health details, the phone numbers of friends and family, pictures of their children and grandchildren etc.

My granny used to say, 'don't put all your eggs in one basket'......

[myoldjalopy]

Some are literally addicted to their smartphones. That, plus the amount of personal information stored on them, means they have a complete meltdown when said phone is lost or stolen. Oh dear....

[Bill_qaz]

Went to by a book about conspiracy and paranoia. I struggled to find the shop with location turned off on my phone. When I found the shop they wouldn't let me in without either iris recognition or biometric chip. Oh well couldn't of paid anyway as I don't have a bitcoin account.
Never mind at least my nectar card knows who I am, where I live, what I eat and how often I buy new socks