Minor querks

[iandromiskin]

Just wondering if other owners also believe, as I do, that their cars are alive ? You know the way they are feelng on certain days by the way they handle or sound, if you get my meaning. Try and explain this to a normal car owner and they try and have you committed on the spot.

I only ask, as a while ago I was driving my car on the motorway doing 50mph so as not to exhaust her, and as well as that she vibrates a bit at anything over 60. But we were nearly sideswiped by another car who just didn't look, or doesn't like minors, and had to take to the hardshoulder. To make a long story short, I don't know who was more p**sed of, me or the car, as we then proceded to overtake him doing 80mph - with no vibration. Yes, i know that was above the legal speed limit, but I had trouble realing her in and calming her down. Sounds funny, but true story.

[bmcecosse]

80 mph - not a standard Minor then !

[dunketh]

My Minors alive too.
Once took it through what can best be described as a river in the road, water even came in the door bottoms.

Engine went bonkers, steam everywhere and started misfiring.
Anyway, I still got home. The poor thing crawled the last 10 miles in 1st and 2nd at walking pace on who knows how many cylinders.
Like good soldiers neither of us would stop and leave the other behind.

[Pyoor_Kate]

"80 mph - not a standard Minor then !"

Um, mine did 96 (indicated - and my speedo underreads) - granted that was downhill, but with the standard 1098 engine.

It'd hold 80 on the flat, no problem, all day long... obvioiously this is before it spectacularly went bang. Mind you, even then she took me home. She wasn't happy, but she took me home all the same.

[Dominic]

Hi Kate
I've found that my car (1098) is much smoother at 65 or above than at 50. I haven't yet taken it up to 80 however! 70 feels good though! And as for "get you home" ability, they are second to none! Mine recently had to run 500 miles approx on a burnt out exhaust valve, effectively running on 3 cylinders!

[moggyminor16]

my old saloon was happy to do 85 all the way from stansted to dover
yes yes i have teh same with my traveller when i get cut up she seems to go for it sounding mean and when you press teh pedal off she goes and at 80 when you do it ,you still can feel teh front pick up and off she goes ,yes not standard ,but dont know top speed yet as speedo dose funny things over 90 sorry i for to menchtion it was in germany on teh nice auto bahn i did this but still seemd i was standing still

[rayofleamington]

I forgot to mention that it was in Germany on the nice Auto-bahn i did this, but it still seemed as though I was standing still

Yes - at 80 mph on the Autobahn you are practically a sitting duck. Try doing 70mph!!! Getting into the fast lane at 70 feels like Russian roulette
I had to do this in a really rubbish 9slow) hire car once - it was frightening. In the end I gave up and sat with the trucks in the slow lane - a very slow journey but at least I arrived alive.

Having driven far too much in Germany, I'd be very reluctant to take a Minor there, although if it was a 120mph V8 or Twin-Cam minor, that's different

[moggyminor16]

yes i do agree with you there

[rayofleamington]

Just wondering if other owners also believe, as I do, that their cars are alive ?

Well, some of these threads have a life of their own..

but yes - I've often kidded myself that the car is alive - and has good hearing.
One of my Minors seized up solid whilst I was collecting a takeaway. The guy at the counter was complimenting me on my Minor and I was explaining its faults -I got back to the car, turned the key 'clunk' and no starting , then bent the starting handle trying to free it off, and eventually walked back to the house
I was sure the car had heard me talking ;-)

[paulhumphries]

The other day I went to pick up a gearbox for the Austin Seven project.
On the way down I was surprised to see my Minor easilly cruised at an indicated 80 mph.
On the way back I checked the speedo against the SatNav.
80 mph on speed was really just 65 mph !
So unless you have a ticket from the Police confirming your speed or a GPS / SatNav take the speedo indications "with a pinch of salt"

Paul Humphries

[moggyminor16]

trust me new speedo the lot also you could have the wrong speedo

[Axolotl]

I checked my speedo the other day against one of those smiley/frowny face things at the side of the road. It seems to be spot on at 29 ...30 ...31 .

I think the man sitting next to it in his hi-vis coat thought I was mad, driving up and down past it.

Question is, how fast do I dare go to check it at 40 , 50 , 60 down my local high street? .

[paulhumphries]

I checked my speedo the other day against one of those smiley/frowny face things at the side of the road. It seems to be spot on at 29 ...30 ...31 .

Against a GPS mine seems reasonably accurate up to about 40 mph and then the errors start to occur.
The faster it indicated the larger the error.

Paul Humphries.

[Axolotl]

I'm interested in how accurate these GPS things seem to be now. If you can rely on the speed indication over a short distance, they must be extremely accurate. How do they get round the military-imposed error in positioning? Or has that been removed now?

I bought one years ago, as a walking aid, and it was great in the open, but as soon as the path went into the woods, or it rained, no signal.

What have they done to improve that?

[JimK]

I'm interested in how accurate these GPS things seem to be now. If you can rely on the speed indication over a short distance, they must be extremely accurate. How do they get round the military-imposed error in positioning? Or has that been removed now?

SA, or Selective Availablity was removed sveral years ago due to the great number of companies that boradcast a correction service. They compared the GPS location with their known location and broadcast the resulting error to subscribers.
Clinton announced it would stop and Bush enacted it, I think.

In any case, that never had much effect on speed readings, as the error was not a "+/- 100 metres" type error but a steadily but slowly changing error. If your plotted your postion, then you'd see yourself apparently moving in a rough circle (allowing for the receiver's error of typically a few metres). The error changed slowly enough that your change in position from one second to the next (and hence speed) was relatively accurate. You can certainly rely on the figure to within a few tenths of mph.

The barrier to accuracy is how accurate the receiver can compare the time signals from the satellites using some pretty severe maths. Better receivers have allowed accuracy to improve but the next barrier will be more accurate clocks in the satellites themselves.

Military receivers are still more accurate than civilian equipment as they have access to a different signal from the satellites. Accuracies of a few centimetres are possible.

I bought one years ago, as a walking aid, and it was great in the open, but as soon as the path went into the woods, or it rained, no signal.

It has to see at least four satellites, so inevitably you'll have problems under cover. And most people don't realise that rain can halve the signal strength.

What have they done to improve that?

Not a lot they can do about cover, really. Most terminals now can track up to a dozen satellites which means they have a better chance of giving you a reading.
Receiver sensitivity has improved so rain is less of an issue.

[Dominic]

How do they get round the military-imposed error in positioning? Or has that been removed now?

That error was removed a few years ago. Prior to that, there was available for £200 or so, some electronic gadgetry that re-instated the extra accuracy that had been removed. A friend of mine who is a keen yachtsman bought it..... a few days before the signals were upgraded, thus rendering it obsolete! I don't think he even had the chance to open the box to try it out!
Maybe he should try selling it on ebay?

[Axolotl]

Thanks for these replies, it has cleared up some confusion in my mind.

So what it comes down to is that the positioning error has been removed and the new devices have faster processors and better algorithms to track more satellite signals and calculate relative positions faster.

Because they can track more satellites, they are less likely to lose all signal, but the individual transmitted signals from the satellites are just as subject to degradation by building / tree cover and weather as ever.

I think I'll stick to a map for now. It works in all weathers, indoors and out, can be updated with a pencil to show new roads if necessary, is bio-degradable and doesn't attract car thieves. It'll also talk me to my destination if I install the optional navigator partner.

[JimK]

So what it comes down to is that the positioning error has been removed and the new devices have faster processors and better algorithms to track more satellite signals and calculate relative positions faster.

Yes, more or less. The more satellites you can compare the better information you have.

Because they can track more satellites, they are less likely to lose all signal, but the individual transmitted signals from the satellites are just as subject to degradation by building / tree cover and weather as ever.

Yes for buildings/trees but no for weather. The GPS receiver is a radio device, clearly, and the radio receivers in consumer-grade GPS devices have improved hugely over the years. I've used my Garmin GPS12XL is horrendous rain in the Lake district with no problems.

I think I'll stick to a map for now. It works in all weathers, indoors and out, can be updated with a pencil to show new roads if necessary, is bio-degradable and doesn't attract car thieves. It'll also talk me to my destination if I install the optional navigator partner.

Heh. You sure the map works in all conditions? I've suffered both expensive-paper-mache incidents and impromptu hang-gliding sessions with paper maps...

But, I've never been out without a map and compass as well as the GPS. Maps and compasses don't have batteries that run out.

And you don't mean "navigation partner", you mean "nagivation partner". Much more accurate description

[rayofleamington]

The GPS devices can give a speed reading that is far far more accurate than a conventional classic car speedo.

Jon had one of these GPS witchcraftery devices when we went through Africa last month. It was very interesting to see what the error in speed and mileage was - for about half an hour
The GPS device confirmed what my meager brain already knew so apart from confirming this, it was pointless.
Mileage needed to be factored by 1.7 and speed was fairly accurate if you read MPH on the KMH scale (except for when the speedo was in a bad mood and it could read anything it wanted, but you could tell speed from engine noise anyway)

Needless to say, maps were, as always, essential. One day we wasted the entire day due to the ####s (people) with GPS saying we had to go in a certain direction, completely ignoring the sensible advice to go back to the nearest town and ask which road we should follow. After 8 hours wasted, we ended up back at the town.
We were off-road for 5 days to get to Timbuktu and all I ever heard from the GPS commentry was "we're on the wrong road" or "we're heading in completely the wrong direction" (we were actually on the right road but it was not in a straight line). By the end of those 5 days my only response was "chuck it out the window and then we'll get there with far less problems"

There was yet another story in the national papers yesterday - a guy followed his GPS navigation system and ended up on tram tracks and blocked an entire city centre for 3 hours unil the car could be removed from the tracks where it had got stuck.

My view on GPS/sat nav? People rely on it and forget to use their common sense. People will get killed because of it (if they didn't already), and I'd prefer to use a map.

[Matt]

I use GPS occasionally, but I always check where im going on the map and plan a sensible route. Basically I use GPS to find where im going once in a town/area but always have maps too!