Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

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sloopjohnrb
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Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:17 pm

I'm passed wit's end and I really, really do need some help.
Gladys, 948cc, March 1962.

During the last year, I have done some serious upgrades to Gladys, bear with me whilst I list the main ones.

Replacement Diff due to wear on the original.
New starter.
New distributor.
New vacuum pipe
Service-oil and filter, air filter, plugs .
New throttle cable
New choke cable
New carb jet
New pipe float chamber to jet
New carb needle
New throttle return spring


Obviously Gladys has been off the road and is on SORN, no current MOT and insurance, and the work has had to be done when time permitted as there was a fair number of family crisis' which ran concurrently.

The trouble is that I just can't get her to start and because the work has been carried out on so many different occasions, the stops and starts mean that I have lost track of everything. ALL the usual checks for non-starting have been made again and again, the Timing checked again and again, plug gaps, float needle settings -you name it and it's been done so it's not the usual type of advice I seek. Currently, the carb is playing up again, but before I buy yet another part, it would make sense to pause and ask for assistance rather than just throw money at it.

I will eventually be taking it down the road to the garage for MOT, but the mechanics are not Moggie experts and it would be unreasonable to expect them to be!

I need the expertise of a fellow Moggie owner to look over the work I've done and see if I've made an error somewhere or not, as the case may be. A fresh pair of eyes, allied to intimate knowledge of the Moggie is exactly what's needed.
I have the full worshop BMC manual, a garage and a hefty lot of great tools.

Now I would not expect a fellow member to spare the time and trouble to have a look at Gladys just out of kindness.
I would be more than happy to reimburse travel/fuel costs and also pay a decent fee for your expertise and knowledge.
Please, is anyone near to Old Colwyn, Colwyn Bay, north Wales who could help me out, I'm past Wits' end and very dis-spirited and depressed with it all.

I can be contacted the quickest by EM
sloopjohnrb@btinternet.com
01492 514682, ansafone, your call will be returned.

Best wishes, John

ASL642
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby ASL642 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:06 pm

Hi John! Don't give up yet :D Can I suggest you contact the North Wales Branch of the MMOC? Ron Jones (Mold) 0one352 7zero0068. He may be able to put you in touch with a member near to you who could give Gladys the once over.

Lou Rocke
MMOC 43512

MarkyB
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby MarkyB » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:53 pm

Start by checking that you are getting a spark.
Take out number 1 plug, reattach the lead and lay it on the thermostat housing.
Ignition on, turn it over using the solenoid button.

Is there a nice fat Blue spark?

If there is dribble a thimble full of petrol down the plug hole, reinsert the plug and have another go at starting it.

If it fires a couple of times you need to take a look at the carb.
Does the piston rise and fall with an audible clunk?

If not you need to recentre the jet and try again.

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:07 pm

Hi Markyb-as I might have mentioned all that has been done-and more.
Thanks for the inputthough, much appreciated.

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:09 pm

Hi ASL 642
Thank you so much for the info on NW branch, Couldn't find a number before.
I will deffo give that a try
Best wishes
John

d_harris
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby d_harris » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:39 pm

Silly question, but are you using fresh fuel?


Mog-nuts
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby Mog-nuts » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:15 pm

Hi,
There's a Moggie specialist in Colwyn Bay.
Try Dave Hartley on 01492 593154

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:22 am

he3llo all,
Yes, fresh fuel was another thing done.
I am grateful for the info on the Moggie specialist, and also to Lee, who called last night and got my ansafone-by the time I got home it was too late to call you back, my apologies and also my thanks for getting in touich,

I will try the Moggie specialist and the local branch this day and report back,
Thank you again
Best wishe

trunnions59

Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby trunnions59 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:06 pm

Hi, am new to the forum but not new to Minors!
Check the following if you haven't done already.
1 Check there is a spark at the points and plugs.
If so,
2, remove no.1 spark plug.
3. Insert starting handle and with a finger covering the plug hole turn the engine until you feel pressure developing under your finger.
4 Continue turning the engine slowly until the No.1 piston is at Top Dead Centre. You can shine a torch in and see it rise, or poke something non metallic such as a biro down in the plug hole to check its all the way up.
Now the engine as at TDC on the end of its compression stroke ready for its power stroke.
5. Remove the distributor cap.
6 observe where the rotor arm is pointing and fit the plug lead from where it is, (probably but not always about 1o'clock) to No 1 spark plug after you refit it.
7 .Now, going in the direction of rotor arm rotation, fit the nexy plug lead to no.3 plug, the next to no, 4 and the last to No 2.
Now you have checked that your plug leads are connected to the correct plugs and in order for the correct firing order of 1,3,4,2.
Try the engine.
Its very easy to mix up the plug leads even if you are familiar with an A series.
If still no good and, or no spark at plugs/points, suspect the points and/or condenser, and very probably the rotor arm, especially if you put a new one on.
Don't buy new ones unless they are genuine Lucas, and that goes for points and condensers. There are some really bad quality parts out there and rotor arms have been known to fail without warning.
The haynes book gives good problem solving advice for going through the Lt and Ht circuits so, assuming you have one, i won't bother to repeat it.

If all is well and you have a spark at the plugs but still no joy,
grab a jam jar, and with the ignition on, disconnect the fuel pipe to the carb. The fule from the pump should now pump quickly into the jar. If it doewsn't, you've cracked it; its the pump. Wallop the pump. Invaiably it will work, so if this happens you car will start but i recommend you buy an electronic conversion for you exiating pump from Bull Motif that does away with the points. New pumps with points will still give bother after a while; pointless ones don't tend to but are polarity dependant; if you get it wrong they don't give you enough juice on hills!
If fuel does pump out of the pipe, replace the pipe and look at the carb.
Remove the air filter. Lift piston with its lifting pin which is to the side of the carb below the dashpot. Listen carefully. It still droip down with a metallic click. If it doesn't, then centre the jet by undoing the big nut underneath, (NOt the jet mixture nut) and twiddling the jet about till the piston does fall with a click. You may have to do this over and over till its correct and it can take from 5 to 20 mins!!!
Next, top up the dash pot with some 20W50 oil and retry the piston. A metallic click as it falls means all is well.
Next check your mixture adjustment is not all the way up because that may make the car too weak to start.
Also check that with the choke fully out, that the jet is pulled down enough to richen the mixture for cold starting. You can see it will have moved down exposing shiny gold coloured jet. If not, adjust the cable.

Next, try her again, hopefully, you'll be running!

Hope some of that was helpful

Andy

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:16 am

Many thanks. I've got a lot of new things to check out plus the contact details of a number of people who I can call on should things not go right with the new checks.
Best wishes

irmscher
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby irmscher » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:17 pm

Any news john

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:27 pm

Hiya, Was delayed on starting due to yet another, emergency-wish I could catch a break.
Will be starting tomorow and all over thr weekend so should have news by Sunday evening at the latest.
I will post findings and progress.
Best wishes
John

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:10 am

Message for Lee

Hi, I think I caused a mix up!

Along with your telephone call, I received another with a message left on ansafone.
Last night (1/7/11) I "returned" the call, or so I thought, by calling YOUR number, when I recognised your voice I thought that it was you, Lee, who had also made the second call.
It must have seemed strange to you that I called you to report no progress whatsoever due to another emergency!!

Sorry for the mix up, I later discovered that there was a different, second number.

I'm starting Gladys this day. It has been difficult, but when one has elderly, disabled and sick relatives they have to take priority I guess. It seems I can get a clearrun over the next 3 days so I will report findings then, in this forum,
May I thank everyone for such a great response and for all the advice, it's first class.
Best wishes
John

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:32 pm

Resume of work on Gladys today:

Starter motor connections cleaned and checked. Starter tested on solenoid button, it's turning the engine over so it@s working OK.

Found ignition totally dead-unusual... checked fuses, OK but replaced them to be safe with new ones-then....found that the fusebox was shorting at the crocodile clips that hold the fuses.
Gave the fusebox a total clean especially the clips however the problem recurred.

Inspection with magnifying glass showed the contacts and clips to be very badly worn, pitted and cracked.
So, replacement fusebox ordered as it clearly is beyond any sort of repair.

Now, this intermittent problem may have had a bearing on the not being able to start problem, it may not be the entire answer, but I'm guessing it's an important part of it.

I also re checked the float, needle and seat and although I've adjusted it and checked it a score of times, this will count for nothing if I'm not doing it right. I'M following the Haynes manual instructions, with the 5/16ths bar method, but..just how tight must the float be on the bar? Obviously not so tight that the thing can't move, but it shouldn't flop all the way down either, am I right in thinking this?

I'm back on tomorrow and will be starting with the float and then going into the inlet manifold and carburettor seal areas, any tips on how to definately pin down the float gap measurement will be really welcome.
Thank you again for all your patience , I'm a lot more positive we'll get there in the end.
Best wishes John

MarkyB
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby MarkyB » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:10 pm

Put about an egg cup full of petrol down the throat of the carb and see if it shows signs of running.

SU carbs don't really wear out and need replacing.

Make sure the piston in the carb rises easily with finger pressure and drops back with an audible clunk too.

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:12 am

Hiyas,
Yes I tried that and she roared into life but when the eggcup-full was spent, she stopped again.
Today I'm going to investigate the carb, carb seal and inlet manifold as has been suggested to me.

I'M still sure the float 'aint right though, Iam doing something wrong or incorrect procedure.

I will keep updating.

PS New fusebox had to be ordered as it was really cracked on close inspection-must have a bearing on matters I think.
Best wishes
john

MarkyB
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby MarkyB » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:44 pm

Enough silt can accumulate in the pipe that goes to the jet to block it, try squirting WD40 through it and see what comes out.

If the piston in the carb doesn't rise easily it will have the same effect.

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"

trunnions59

Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby trunnions59 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:20 pm

The position of the float won't really make a difference too much. A few mm either way won't make a difference. The fact that your car roared into life probably means the carb is ok although may need a clean out. Take off the dash pot, and put a length of tubing down onto the jet. The radiator overflow pipe is ideal. Blow hard through the pipe and if fuel squirts out of the float chamber top through the gasket, there isn't much wrong there with the jet. Clean out the float chamber to be sure. If there isn't much silt then it probably isn't a carb related prob.
It also means that you had a spark where you needed it as the car did start when you poured in the fuel.
If your fusebox is a Lucar type with push on terminals then yes, a dodgy fuse box could be part of, if not all of, the problem. When they get old they do play up. I had a problem with the identical type fusebox on my Austin 1300; sometimes the electrical circuits on the ignition circuit wouldn't work, leaving me with no indicators or wipers.
On my 67 Minor the fusebox there stopped the horn and interior light working when the contacts became loose.
On yours, the live feed to the ignition isn't controlled by the fuses as you have only two fuses that just control the auxilliaries; ; one for those that work with the igniton on (wipers, flashers etc )and one for those with the ignition off, (horn, interior lamp.)
BUT, the ignition wires do join together there at a junction on the fuse box. They are white. One comes from the ignition switch, one goes to the fuel pump and one goes to the coil so a breakdown in your fuse unit could provoke some intermittent flow of current, either stopping the pump or stopping the power to the coil. If you study the wiring diagram in the Haynes book this should be obvious and its a good way of checking it all out. The Morris Minor electrical system is very simple.
I would say change the fusebox and if it doesn't go then, go through those steps methodically as before.
Did you have any joy with any of the steps i set out in my other email?

MarkyB
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby MarkyB » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:03 am

Sorry trunnion but "The fact that your car roared into life probably means the carb is ok"
Is just wrong.
The fact that your car roared into life when petrol was poured in means the problem is the carb.

I'd take the top of the float chamber off too, then you can see what comes out of the jet.
Don't blow too hard or you'll get an eyeful of petrol and silt.

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"

sloopjohnrb
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Re: Any Member Near To Wits End, Colwyn Bay, Wales?

Postby sloopjohnrb » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:07 pm

Gladys Update 7/7/11

Okay, the float problem is now well and truly fixed.
It is shutting off the fuel when it should, which has stopped the float chamber floods I've experienced in times past.

The new fusebox has arrived and I expected a simple replacement job, however, the wiring is proving to be so brittle that it is powdering when the retaining screw is tightened.

What I intend to do is bring some more play out of the loom to give more length to the wires, then search around for something along the lines of Chemical Metal etc, which will then allow the proper fitting of the fusebox and eliminate any further shorts.

I'm desperate to get onto the carb of course, and to follow the ideas I've been given, but I am thinking that the Fusebox will have to be done properly first. This will be fitst job tomorrow.
Assuming all goes well, I will move on to carb inlet manifold, carb piston and needle checks, and also another look and check on the timing.

My sincere thanks to you and all who have been so kind as to proffer advice.

I will update tomorrow.
Best wishes
John


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