Do we know when we are NOT buying Ethanol ??

[LobbyLudd]

So apparently any modern car built after 2010 is only claimed to now be 'fully' compatible with Ethanol ?? That leaves an awful lot of vehicles made before this year including of course our classics!

Certain 'super' brands of unleaded (e.g. brands like Vpower, Excellium etc. ?) do not have any ethanol added (Esso,BP,Texaco)
with the exception apparently of all grades of unleaded fuels supplied from Plymouth Depot that all have ethanol added?
Does anyone have any idea of the brands that can definately be said to have no ethanol added at the moment.(I understand the intention will be to add 5% ethanol to all these Super brands in the future)??


Apparently Shell refuse to give out any information as to whether their super grade has ethanol added ??

As said before attached to another thread and now mentioned again I wonder if anyone within the MMOC club knows or would be willing to try to discover anything towards the latest answers regarding this rather 'grey' area to guide club members (or is this simply regarded of no interest or importance by the club for the future ) ??

[SteveClem]

Yes, it's a concern, Isn't it. I don't think the oil companies give a toss as old cars use a minuscule amount of the fuel they sell. Additives are a bit new and untested. Having said that,everyone seems to like seeing our cars so there is potential for some PR. All the classic car clubs have to get together!

[Theo_NL]

Shell Australia:
http://s02.static-shell.com/content/dam ... thanol.pdf

Not yet found a similar doc for Europe.

[The vast minority]

Oh goody
Another petrol thread

[SteveClem]

I know someone who ran his Mitsubishi pickup on old cooking oil. Perhaps we should do a chip oil thread for a change.

[LobbyLudd]

Sorry did not intend another 'Petrol' thread
really intended it an 'Ethanol' thread

At least when E10 (10% ethanol added) eventually hits the filling stations it will be a legal requirement to display this information at the point of sale so we actually should know what is being sold. Unlike at present where no law exists to require labelling of fuel that contains 5%

(The FBHVC seem to be doing the best service in monitoring and updating reports to us on this subject of Ethanol concern particularly for the future running of classics)

[GBond]

Not useful information but interesting nonetheless.

I remember not too long ago while traveling in the US I noticed in some gas stations that "regular" grade was more expensive than the "premium" grade. I asked around and apparently the "regular" is no ethanol added and to make the "premium" they just add some ethanol to it.

Modern cars are supposed to be compatible with E85, which is 85% ethanol (supposedly even gives better performance, but far worse fuel economy) whereas a mixture of 5-10% is deemed to be adequate for all cars.

Out of curiosity, what are the problems one could expect from running fuel with a little bit of ethanol on classics? I ask because I believe most gas stations around where I live sell the stuff so I'm bound to get some in my tank if not there already.

[kevin s]

Corrosion of metal parts and degredation of rubber posbly leading to leaks . ( hose available now is compatible with ethanol)

[irmscher]

Does Ethanol have any problems with carbon fibre ??

[panky]

Not sure about carbon fibre but I believe it dissolves the resin in fibre glass

[LobbyLudd]

Not sure about carbon fibre but I believe it dissolves the resin in fibre glass

Also found already to be very bad and costly news indeed so far for boat owners using the marketed ethanol fuel. Reported in the States with fibreglass fuel tanks and other hard plastic, filters and fittings (fuel lines etc) discovered it turns eventually to a gooey gunk film that blocks filters, upsets Ignition etc.etc.
(Ethanol attracts moisture an ideal situation particularly with boats. )

[LobbyLudd]

My two nearest filling stations in opposite directions happen to be both Esso. I needed to fuel up my Moggy yesterday and just made enquiries to re-check if the super 97 Octane (Esso Energy Supreme) that I just bought still did not contain any ethanol.
Both 'Managers' at each filling station did not know and one did not seem to be aware of what ethanol was

However Esso customer services have just kindly responded to an email enquiry just to clarify their own present position on the subject of Ethanol in their unleaded fuels. (In case anyone is not aware or interested in this)

quote :-
Thank you for contacting Esso Customer Care.

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains 5% ethanol as required under Governments Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO)

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded(97 grade petrol) .Esso super unleaded petrol (Esso Energy Supreme) is ethanol free (except in Devon,Cornwall, the Teeside area and Scotland) and we have no current intention to add ethanol to Esso Energy Supreme in other areas of the UK.

We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol when visiting an Esso station to use Esso Energy Supreme - providing they don't fill up in Devon, Cornwall, the Teeside area or Scotland.

Yours sincerely
Esso Customer Care 28/1/2015


So at least I know my most local stations have an ethanol free grade in my area and at present I still have the choice of not buying ethanol.

[SteveClem]

I just get the feeling that they will gradually put more and more of the stuff into petrol. Have read conflicting reports on how effective the protective additives are. For the moment I'm sticking to branded 'super' for all my old cars. Not worth risking it for a few pennies.

[LobbyLudd]

Following an enquiry to Shell UK they have now answered by stating - that at this present time BOTH grades of unleaded petrol (their standard and their super grade) contains Ethanol at all Shell filling stations.

[SteveClem]

Oh dear... I wonder what the situation is with BP?

[LobbyLudd]

Oh dear... I wonder what the situation is with BP?

Just contacted them Steve out of interest, asking the present situation with BP (awaiting reply)

[LobbyLudd]

Latest information as at 6/2/2015 re ethanol in unleaded grades available at the pumps today
from these 4 following companies contacted.

BP - 5% is contained in our regular unleaded petrol (similar to the majority on sale today)
Ref BP Ultimate - " This is an evolving situation (in line with government guidelines) and we are unable to give you catagorical assurances of the absence or presence of ethanol throughout the supply chain of our BP Ultimate petrol"

TEXACO (Verado) - BOTH our regular and super grades of unleaded petrol contain 5% ethanol at present.

SHELL UK - BOTH our regular and super grades of unleaded petrol contain 5% ethanol at present.

ESSO - 5% ethanol is added to our regular grade unleaded petrol
( NO ethanol* is added to our 'super' grade at present.
(*government legislation does not at present require us to add ethanol to this higher grade of petrol)

[SteveClem]

Well, I think it's all a bit concerning( and sneaky). I guess we need more concrete guidance about the dangers and ways we can protect our cars.

[LobbyLudd]

(Esso confirmed again that Cornwall,Devon,Teeside area and Scotland are the exception and their super grade DOES contain 5% ethanol in these areas of the UK only at present time) other areas remain free of ethanol in their super grade (at present)

The principle I think is that as customers of these fuel companies we do not clearly know what we are buying at the moment regarding ethanol content at the present time as there is no signing at the point of sale and in most cases no knowledge at all about the subject at the pay kiosks