OUCH!!!!!!

[qwertyhenry]

Look what just happened when I've just come home form the holiday/Scottish morris minor branch show , just turned into the garage and lower reunion let go ouch ,but I'm a very lucky guy ten minutes before I was on the motorway doing 60mph count my lucky stars I think im putting on the lottery this weekend[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

You were indeed lucky - it often buckles back and ruins the front wing........

[qwertyhenry]

a little damage to the wing but not much ,roy

[MrIan]

Glad you're ok. Just out of curiosity when is it's MOT due? I'm wondering if the new school MOT testers know how to check for trunion wear.

[drivewasher]

It's a case of knowing where to jack the car up. Most cars nowadays have mcphearson struts with coil springs. They are tested for ball and bush wear with the suspension hanging IE car jacked under the body/chassis. But any vehicle with torsion bars that act on the lower arms or Mercs with a transverse spring or with a coil spring that acts directly on the lower arm, must be jacked twice. Once under the lower arms to test lower ball OR trunnion play and then as normal to test other suspension components.

Testers have access to VSI (vehicle specific information) that tells us the jacking points on each vehicle logged on. Unfortunately sometimes it's wrong and for our moggies no VSI is available. But it's just a matter of looking where the spring force is applied.

[qwertyhenry]

what to do replace full leg or just the bottom bit , heres the offending bits[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[moggyadventurer]

Very lucky indeed.
Mine failed yesterday at about 50mph - costs building up- new wing, tyre, wheels buckled, kingpin with new trunnions, wishbone thin side etc. More importantly all replaceable.. no injuries i'm pleased to say

Interesting how frequent this appears to be occurring - looking at recent threads on this site.

Having dismantled the old kingpin, I have come to the assumption the only true way to get grease through the bottom trunnion is to remove it as part of the servicing. The grease appears to dry up within about 3 months making it very difficult to lubricate the full length of the thread. I tried hypoid oil and standard grease last year on the other side as an experiment and I must admit was very surprised to see how well it has remained when i dismantled it today. Threads nice and clean and all well lubricated (been about 3000 miles). Just conscious of it running out the bottom.

Has anyone got any pictures of how to modify the backplate- with angle iron or any other examples of catching the bottom trunnion in the event of failure as to avoid a total collapse?

[bmcecosse]

QH - that's definitely a complete new leg job - and frankly it would be wise to do both sides - and poly bush while in there!

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

I wonder if the new trunnions with 2 greaser would be any better at getting the grease in?

[MrIan]

Looking at the design of the lower trunion at least, when it's being greased and the horizontal bearing inserts are slightly worn the grease is going to come out of the rubber seals on the bottom pin and not go into and around the thread on the king pin leg. On top of that the thread on the leg relies on a rubber dust seal to stop grit getting in which is ok if there is fresh clean grease there, if not the grit and old grease will create a grinding paste. It's almost like failure is designed into it. If an additional grease nipple could be fitted into the upper threaded section at least you could flush out the muck.

[qwertyhenry]

well that's bullmotif got £213 pounds of my money and getting two complety new legs and peace of mind too

[bmcecosse]

Do they come with steering arms- or do you need to transfer yours?

[qwertyhenry]

got to transfer my own roy
is it a easy job m8

[bmcecosse]

Errrrr no.... You may need to cut the old leg away to release the taper shank.

[IaininTenbury]

Bit of heat and a big hammer normally pops 'em off ok. Well sometimes a lot of heat , but I've never had to resort to cutting away the old leg.
I'm surprised that no one has produced an uprated trunnion kit like the Walford trunnions you could get for Marinas. You get a threaded bit to screw onto the old leg - suitably degreased, which can be locktighted on and then the outside of that is a much larger thread that the new oversize trunnion fits to. Gives new trunnion thread on both trunnion and leg whilst still keeping the old leg and as its a much larger bearing area it lasts a lot longer too. I was only reminded about these as I'm planning to resurrect my old Marina pickup for daily transport and work use and was doing a parts stock check... I expect there's a good reason like not enough space on a Minor for that solution....

[philthehill]

The offset between the centre of the trunnion pin and the centre of the swivel threads is greater on a Marina than a Minor.
The trunnion pin is the same diameter but the threads are longer on one end (for fitting a steering stop). I consider the trunnion pins fitted to the Marina to be of better quality and finish than the ones currently produced for the Minor and they are surface hardened. Because of the considered better quality I have Marina trunnion pins fitted to my Minor.
The better Minor bottom trunnions are fitted with a baffle around the bottom trunnion pin and between the trunnion pin bearings which is supposed to direct some of the grease to the swivel threads. I have found that the baffle is not always fitted so the grease takes the easy way out and just slips past the trunnion bearings and not into the swivel threads.
Having an extra grease nipple fitted on the front outer face and at the bottom of the swivel threads is a very good idea as the grease will go upwards and out of the threads past the seal.
I have just removed the steering arms from a pair of old swivel pins and the arms came out without any difficulty and I did not have to use any heat. Make sure that a nut is placed loosely over the steering arm threads to protect them which/what ever way you use to remove the arms.

[midget]

Does this offset affect the suspension geometry Phil? If so how have you corrected it?
I have complete Ital suspension, I assume they are the same?

[philthehill]

The Marina/Ital bottom trunnion will not fit the Minor upright as the Marina/Ital trunnion internal diameter and the bottom threads of the Marina/Ital swivel are of a larger external diameter so cannot be fitted to the Minor steering swivel.
The only parts from a Marina/Ital bottom trunnion that can be used with a Minor bottom trunnion are:-
The trunnion pin.
The trunnion pin bushes.
The thrust plates either side of the bottom trunnion.
The rubber seals that fit over both the bottom trunnion and the thrust plates. The seals are of a much better quality and fit.
The grease nipple.
It is a pity the Marina/Ital bottom trunnion will not fit the Minor as it would provide an easy way of introducing negative camber into the suspension.
So to answer your question as the Marina/Ital bottom trunnions are not and cannot be used no compensation has to be considered.
Unfortunately the top link assembly of a Marina/Ital is different - so the complete Marina/Ital steering swivel cannot be used on a Minor without major structural changes to the Minor bodywork.
I have just checked three new bottom trunnions and find that two do not have the baffle and one does. On close examination the baffle does restrict the grease going to the trunnion pivot pin and should allow the majority of grease to access the swivel threads. But the problem arises when the grease in the swivel threads is old and hard and will not allow the new grease into the threads.
So regular greasing (every 1000 miles max) is the solution but only after making sure that the old grease is not hard by stripping and cleaning the trunnions.
Unfortunately the Minor is not like modern cars where you can fit a suspension joint and virtually forget for 1000s of miles.
The Minor front suspension need loving care and attention otherwise OUCH!!!!!!

[midget]

Thanks for clarification, as that is how I understood the fact that they were not interchangable.
I will swap trunnion pins when upgrading, along with brakes and torsion bars.

[philthehill]

Midget
If you replace the Minor torsion bars with the Marina ones you will need to adapt the rear of the Marina torsion bar or try and obtain a Own Burton Marina to Minor torsion bar fitting kit as per attached photo[frame][/frame]