Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

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Clare45
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Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby Clare45 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:56 am

Hello everyone

I am in the process of buying a beautiful Morris Minor which I've just had a car check on by Charles Ware.
A few things came up in the check and it does sound like it might be priced a bit too high. I have attached the check notes.

I would look at getting a brake servo for safety but I don't want modifications because I want an old car that has a story to tell. Really my main concerns are safety and that it works effectively and has no rust. Does anyone have experience of the points raised and the work it might require? It sounds like it's mainly superficial stuff rather than structural. Andy and Wayne at Charles Ware have been very helpful and I'm planning on discussing it further with them when I get back next week.

The current owners are very genuine and restore old bikes themselves, we get on very well so i think they would be prepared to get some bits done or it may just be a case of getting the price down. It was offered at £9,000 and it sounds like Charles Ware suggests £7,000 for a private sale all things considered.

If anyone has any input for me that would be great, as I'm rather clueless when it comes to cars! I just know that this one came to me in very unusual circumstances and happens to be exactly the spec I am after, so it does feel like its meant to be. I don't want a perfect car because I want it to match it's owner :D

I do also need to be sensible though!

Any help greatly appreciated
I'm so looking forward to the adventures that lye ahead and meeting some of you soon!

Clare[frame]Image[/frame]

Clare45
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby Clare45 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:58 am

I don't know if the document attached ok? ....
Here is a picture of the car in question[frame]Image[/frame]

Clare45
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby Clare45 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:01 am

I'm hoping this works...
I forgot to say the car is a 1961 original convertible
948cc[frame]Image[/frame]

Clare45
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby Clare45 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:03 am

Third time lucky!

I've copied and pasted the text from the Charles Ware doc:

The car in general is sound in the chassis and underside.
Structurally the bodywork is good.
The car has been resprayed and there are signs of poor preparation and a lack of attention to detail, and also one or two areas where the paint is chipped or marked.
The metal hood frame is in average condition.
The new red vinyl hood has been poorly fitted and poorly finished at the front.
The paintwork has slight cracking to the nearside front wing, the offside rear quarter panel and slight marking around the edge of the offside front wing and the offside front door.
The driver’s door is a poor fit.
There are signs of slight corrosion to the offside and nearside cross member ends that may need attention at some point in the future.
Some drain holes are required in the underside quarter panels.

When driving the car Wayne noticed that the:
Brakes were poor
The heater motor did not work
The manual heater tap did not work
The heater hoses were poor and showed signs of splitting
There was some modest noise from the differential
The horn was faulty
A sign of Blue smoke from the engine when first started, but this seemed to clear when the vehicle was used.
There were signs of corrosion behind the flitch strengtheners inside the engine bay
Wayne did note that the interior trim was in excellent condition and the car itself was a fair drive on the road
To take this car on as a vehicle to prepare for sale, we would value it at about £5,000.00. In the private market a fair price would probably be around £7,000.00 and the owner would be happy to use the car with the chassis, body and paint as it is, but to deal with the mechanical items and probably improve the car with a brake servo and an alternator. There by investing perhaps another £1,000.00 in it.

If one were to take the vehicle on with the intention of having a full professional respray, it would not be cost effective.

I have tried to give a balance view based on Wayne’s inspection and our subsequent conversations, and it is fair to say that all of the points noted are fairly typical of a car approaching 55 years old.

POMMReg
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby POMMReg » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:32 am

Check the chassis number (stamped into bodyshell) matches the ID plate - ensure a genuine M/AT3 - vendor should be okay with this.
Further investigations uncovered it was an inside job!!

amgrave
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby amgrave » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:22 pm

You must remember that Wares are there to promote upgrades that will bring the car up to today's standards and probably that is not what you need as you want an old car and all that goes with it. Brake servos are not needed if the brakes are in good condition so factor in a complete replacement of the system minus the servo. An alternator is not required unless you have a lot of extra electrical items fitted, I have one on mine because it has an electrically heated front and rear screen. If the majority of the paintwork is good and sound you can have small areas re-patched and a respray not needed. If it were me I would get back to the sellers with the report and offer £6000 but bear in mind I have not seen the car myself so I am only going on what you have said and reading between the lines of the report and that the car is a genuine convertible.


Cornishman
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby Cornishman » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:59 pm

POMMReg wrote:Check the chassis number (stamped into bodyshell) matches the ID plate - ensure a genuine M/AT3 - vendor should be okay with this.
Very important as there too many "non originals" out there.
Heater hoses, heater motor not working, etc can be resolved by a good engineer.


Regards,
Andy


WPR678B
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby WPR678B » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:28 pm

POMMReg wrote:Check the chassis number (stamped into bodyshell) matches the ID plate - ensure a genuine M/AT3 - vendor should be okay with this.
I can vouch for this being an original factory built convertible, being the one that bought it from the owner who had stored it for many years. That was back in 1988 but we never got around to doing anything with it and sold it to a fellow member who restored it and owned it for many years.

I know that doesn't really help with the original question, but its a genuine one for sure :D

EDIT : Attached is a picture of when we picked it up all those years ago! Excuse the quality, scan of an old print :D[frame]Image[/frame]

POMMReg
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby POMMReg » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:08 pm

Would always check to be on the safe side!!
Further investigations uncovered it was an inside job!!

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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby plastic_orange » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:21 pm

Reading the report tends to suggest that the car has been rather neglected, but rectification shouldn't be too expensive if you can do the work yourself. However it appears to have had structural work done and if doors aren't fitting well, there may be issues. It has also had a colour change, (unless it has been returned to original colour) and if paint issues are showing up, then I'd question the longevity of the finish.
Obviously I've not seen the car, but have looked at plenty which look superficially good, but have long term problems for the unwary.
I'd be a bit firmer with your offer after you've costed bringing the car up to a good usable standard - £5.5 - £6k max.

Pete
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/sinky_aps/4e634210.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/sinky_aps/MorrisRain4.jpg[/img]

morris van
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby morris van » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:00 pm

On the DVLA MOT History check between 2005 to 2013 the mileage was same 34331 in 2014 11635 in 2015 11643 and when MOTed this year it was 13409 miles. Has it been sitting somewhere for a while and had a new speedo as its got less miles on it than it had 11 years ago.


Clare45
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby Clare45 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:05 am

Thanks very much everyone for your help and comments. I shall check those things out, although I would imagine Charles Ware would have checked the chassis no as part of the inspection.

Re: mileage I know the engine has been reconditioned but I don't have the details on when that was. Even so the mileage doesn't really make sense does it? I'll try and get more details.....

Thank you very much

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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby bmcecosse » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:50 am

At his suggested £5000 value I would run away fast. There's a lot wrong - it won't pass an MOT (even though it maybe doesn't NEED one - never buy a car without a new MOT) - and as mentioned above- have to wonder about the past MOT history. And is it just a speedo change - or is it a different car ???? Maybe an identity crisis here? Ask to see the STAMPED IN chassis number on the engine bulkhead to compare with the V5C. This car will quickly become a money pit - it needs welding/bodywork/hood not well fitted/ final drive work/brakes/horn'heater and last but maybe not least - blue smoke from the engine. Just about the only part not mentioned is the gearbox..... look for something much much better if you are planning on spending £5000. Just my view..
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POMMReg
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby POMMReg » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:42 pm

Proper repair panels should come with drain holes(?)

Kick plates need to come off if inspecting Tourer's - beware of thick underseal on the underside....

As Roy says, in current condition, £5k well over the odds, why CW valued it at £7k is staggering!

Apols for being SO negative!!
Further investigations uncovered it was an inside job!!

morris van
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby morris van » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:23 pm

Clare45 I got your message and if you go to www.gov.uk/mot-history-check and you can check your car or any car you might think of buying to see what it might of failed on in the past.


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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby orb596 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:02 pm

Sorry I have resisted commenting on this thread but I now have to say something as I just can't stand all the bu**sh*t any longer! This is a very good car that I only sold last year. We rebuilt the engine only in 2014 and it also has a new unleaded head and has had everything done to it. As for the speedo - when I bought the car the mileage hadn't worked for some years and I fitted a new one that I bought on E bay. The new engine can't have done more than 2000 miles I would think. The previous owner to me had the car for 25 years and he was the one who restored it himself - but don't forget that was nearly 30 years ago now! Considering the car was restored 30 years ago the condition is pretty good and the car has not been neglected - at least not when I owned it. It looks exactly the same in the photo as it did when I owned it. There should be a whole folder full of receipts showing the work undertaken during my ownership. So Clare, take no notice of all the usual negativity on here and if you like the car that's all that matters!
Laurie Blewer
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby bmcecosse » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:35 pm

I dare say -but the report from CW details all the faults on the car now - including 'blue smoke' from the engine - so I'm guessing the engine overhaul was just a light 'refresh' and needs a proper overhaul now. Anyway - it's good to have some history on the car - and just because money has been spent on it in the past (perhaps unwisely, eg the 'unleaded head') - doesn't mean it's ok now. From that report I would avoid the car. there are plenty of good ones out there -and £5k is definitely too much as it stands at the moment. There's a good £2k to be spent on it if the new owner is not able to do the work themselves - maybe a lot more if given to CW to do the work!!!!
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orb596
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby orb596 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:59 pm

Well Roy, I wouldn't sell you a car if you was the last buyer on earth!!!!!!
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plastic_orange
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby plastic_orange » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:07 pm

I'd suggest that the following items point to some form of neglect, albeit easily rectified:

Brakes were poor
The heater motor did not work
The manual heater tap did not work
The heater hoses were poor and showed signs of splitting
There was some modest noise from the differential
The horn was faulty


Pete
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/sinky_aps/4e634210.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/sinky_aps/MorrisRain4.jpg[/img]

POMMReg
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Re: Advice on pre sale Morris Minor check

Postby POMMReg » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:13 am

plastic_orange wrote:I'd suggest that the following items point to some form of neglect, albeit easily rectified:

Brakes were poor
The heater motor did not work
The manual heater tap did not work
The heater hoses were poor and showed signs of splitting
There was some modest noise from the differential
The horn was faulty


Pete
A list of faults as long as this points to the standard of "restoration" work carried out 30yrs ago not being too good!

£7k + £2k upgrades/respray - factor in poss last respray covers more corrosion - have to be realistic here!
Further investigations uncovered it was an inside job!!


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