New MOT exemption

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Mark Wilson
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby Mark Wilson » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:50 am

firedrake1942 wrote:Why not? it is only by fighting the indefensible, the privileged and vested interests that rights are created, the vulnerable protected and society makes progress!
I have strong political views and agree with the need for all you mention - but this is the last place on earth for such discussions. For me, and I suspect many of us, it is a refuge from the daily batterings of an increasingly crazy world - please leave it so. And no religion, too......

firedrake1942
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby firedrake1942 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:30 am

Oh my God ! (sorry )!

les
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby les » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:15 am

Even when a post suggests refraining from political 'debate', it seems the temptation to hint at their own allegiance is too much to resist !! :roll:


Blaketon
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby Blaketon » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:13 pm

Mark Wilson wrote:
Blaketon wrote:
I don't want to get into politics
Please don't then.
I DIDN'T! I simply reported on my findings and would have done so, whatever the party involved. If anyone is making an issue out of it, YOU ARE!

Admin
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby Admin » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:24 pm

And I think that very amply answers Firedrakes question of "why not" debate politics :) . Can we stick to the original topic please and leave the political bits for another conversation?
Mike Dean
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firedrake1942
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby firedrake1942 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:37 pm

Yay the dementors are back! Yipee!

southerly95
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby southerly95 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:18 pm

A bit more clarification from the Government courtesy of the Honest John newsletter:


Lightly modified classics will be MoT exempt

Fears that modified classic cars wouldn’t qualify for the new MoT exemption have been quashed by the Government. The news comes after ministers granted cars over 40 years old exemption from the annual roadworthiness test – despite a public consultation that opposed such a move.
Now the Department for Transport has clarified the position of modified classics in the MoT-free era. Many feared that the term ‘modified’ could be applied to any classic that has had to have original parts replaced in a bid to keep it on the road.


What does the MoT exemption mean for your car?

Ford to protect classics from scrappage scheme
Ford to save classics from scrappage
Ford will no longer allow classic cars to be traded in as part of its scrappage scheme. Originally, any vehicle built before 1 January, 2010, could be traded in. One customer traded in a 1959 Standard Ten for a new Ford Transit, sparking an outcry from classic car enthusiasts.
End.
[sig]4918[/sig]

philthehill
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby philthehill » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:31 pm

'Lightly modified classics will be MOT exempt'

More detail needed as that is little different to what has already been quoted in the posts above.


les
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby les » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:20 pm

Those that intend to carry on getting mots will do so whatever the details, and I was surprised to read that everyone appears, to indeed have that intention.


palacebear
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby palacebear » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:35 pm

Even though already exempt, I'll continue getting Max tested. Quite simply because I lack the confidence in my own abilities to check everything well enough.
1956 4-door called Max

greendefender123
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby greendefender123 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:04 pm

les wrote:Those that intend to carry on getting mots will do so whatever the details, and I was surprised to read that everyone appears, to indeed have that intention.
Yeah but we're the ones that care.

It does make you wonder whether theyre gonna make mots hard to pass tho. I cant understand why they dont have a more basic test for our cars instead. Im happy i can check most things on my car. But what if i miss bits or dont even think to check parts. Tho im lucky having a 2 post lift in the workshop. I still cant properly test the brakes.
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les
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby les » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:48 am

There is a list of things that get checked, so if it's a diy job, just follow it!


BrianHawley
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby BrianHawley » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:22 pm

I can see that an MOT exemption makes sense for really old cars.

If they run on steam or have an unusual pedal arrangement they would be beyond the skills of most MOT stations.

But I see no reason not to check conventional layout internal combustion engine cars.

And 15% power to weight ratio change seems very small and arbitrary.
Brian

Image "Jodie". '67 Traveller, 1275, discs, suspension mods etc.

Blaketon
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby Blaketon » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:25 pm

I have given some more thought to this and it made me think that there is a case for saying that any car needs an MOT every 10000 miles, so if a car is doing 20000 miles a year, it gets tested twice during that time. I know that modern cars have service lights (Which I understand don't always work as they should) but I'd say the average modern motorist is less aware of mechanical matters, than a classic owner would be. Some do quite high mileages and I think such cars need checking more frequently. Someone at my insurers mentioned a newish Volvo, on a school run, the owner of which was oblivious to the fact that the front tyres were both bald. Whether a person like that would bother to check the mileage is debatable and I suppose there would have to be stiff fines for those who went too long between MOTs.

It would be a tad difficult to cover historics in this but perhaps you could say something like every 1000 or 2000 miles or every five years, whichever is the sooner. As it is, we have exemption, so this is academic. I just hope it doesn't come back to bite us. I don't think the pre 1960 exemptions have caused problems and I hope this precedent continues.

Going back twenty years, when government policy changed and nothing built after 1972 could ever become historic, I entered into protracted correspondence over the issue of rolling free road tax. I wasn't so much concerned over the payment of the tax (Though as a fixed amount, in either of two engine size based bands, it was punitive to owners of low mileage classics), as to the fact that post 1972 vehicles were not to be recognised as historic and so were afforded no protection from any anti banger legislation. An example of this is the London emission charge. I have long felt that the simplest answer is to put road tax on to fuel, so the more you use, the more you pay and I made this point. The responses I got are not really relevant to the issue of MOTs (Though they allowed me to draw conclusions as to prevailing attitudes to classic cars) but the issue of recognising vehicles, as historic, is tied in with it.
Admin wrote:And I think that very amply answers Firedrakes question of "why not" debate politics :) . Can we stick to the original topic please and leave the political bits for another conversation?
There are two ways of looking at it.

1 - This item concerns government policy, so you might say it's politics and ban it.

2 - It is an issue that affects us, that may originate with politicians but it's not really politics. I take this view but if someone were to take issue with the policy (Perhaps over concerns of safety) and then hypothetically go on to say, "It's another example of this government's utter ineptitude", that then would cross the line.

philthehill
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby philthehill » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:40 pm

There does need to be specific details and clarity of what is lightly or heavily modified means and its application to the vehicle being tested and those questionable areas between.
Those that will be tasked with carrying out the MOT need to understand what is modified or not and have an understanding of classic cars.
A good portion of the MOT will therefore be based upon the qualified opinion of the MOT tester and not 'Computer Says Yes'.


jollysmart
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby jollysmart » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:03 pm

This is from the Government guidance:-

How to declare a vehicle for the 40 year MOT exemption
Vehicle keepers are required to ensure that their vehicles are taxed when used on a
public road. From 20 May 2018, at the point of taxing a vehicle, the vehicle keeper
can declare their vehicle exempt from MOT if it was constructed more than 40 years
ago.
When declaring an exemption, you will be required to confirm that it has not been
substantially changed (as defined in this guidance). This process will be applied to
pre-1960 registered vehicles, as well as newer vehicles in the historic vehicle tax
class.
If the vehicle does not have an MOT and you wish to continue using it on the public
roads, you will have either to undergo an MOT or, if you wish exemption from the
MOT, to declare that the vehicle is a VHI.
If the vehicle has a current MOT certificate but you anticipate that on expiry of that
certificate you will wish exemption from future MOTs you will at the time of
relicensing be required to declare that the vehicle is a VHI.

The MOT test will remain the same, but optional, if you wish to tick the box for VHI when the current MOT expires you can, I think it is down to the owner to interpret the rules.

Blaketon
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby Blaketon » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:07 pm

When I saw the consultation, a points system was mooted and the vehicle had to have so many to qualify. Items covered were engine, transmission, braking, suspension and possibly chassis (It was a while ago). That seemed to have disappeared in the letter I had recently, where reference was made only to the 15% power to weight ratio increase (If these mods are pre 1988, they don't matter).

Perhaps a way forward is for a specialist to certify the mods are properly carried out and that the vehicle is still safe (It's no good making a great job of fitting a powerful engine to a Ford Prefect and leaving the cable drum brakes in situ) . Insurers used to ask for engineers reports on modified cars (I expect they still do). You could argue that if the mods were done over 30 years ago, time has proved them to be safe but someone else might say it was just luck. As there is apparently no intention of policing this (A point I raised as soon as I saw it), I suggest that so long as they are period mods, that's all you can ask for; as an example the 1275 engine in my Traveller is a couple of years older than the car, the Marina disc brakes came out at about the time it was made and only the Sierra gearbox post dates it to any degree and that's got to be getting on for 30 years old (Aside from the new bits put in it when it was rebuilt).

The FBHVC say more info is due bit having read the above post (Being typed as I did this), I saw https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... idance.pdf . It doesn't mention proof of when mods were carried out. In the case of my two MGs, I have the invoices that cover the work carried out. As to the Traveller, the 1275 was in it when I bought it in 2003. I know when it was fitted (I have a file full of invoices, even the original one from when the car was sold new) but what if I didn't? It all seems a bit haphazard. As I intend to get the cars tested every 1000 miles, I am minded to declare them all as MOT exempt, to fit in with that.

Update - Before I say any more, I'd better have a read of it. I've just seen "Engine – alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative equipment engines are not considered a substantial change. If the number of cylinders in an engine is different from the original, it is likely to be, but not necessarily, the case that the current engine is not alternative original equipment." I can recall raising this issue in response to the consullation, so my 1275 will be OK, as will those who own Series 2 cars, with 948 or 1098 engines (And of course 1275). What about an MM with an A Series? Thank you Jollysmart :D .

philthehill
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby philthehill » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:32 pm

Reading the above it appears that it is all down to the owner self policing and self declaring that the vehicle has not been substantially modified.
Not an ideal situation I have to say.

It could be argued that because the 1275cc engine was not offered as a factory alternative engine for the Minor (even though it is of the same basic style) it falls foul of the proposed regulations.


SteveClem
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby SteveClem » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:59 pm

Right bugger's muddle,don't you think? I'll just ignore it and get the cars tested every year as usual :wink:

les
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Re: New MOT exemption

Postby les » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:25 pm

I'll follow my list. With the money I save, I'll spend on anything that needs doing. :D



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