Mot

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palacebear
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Re: Mot

Postby palacebear » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:39 pm

Shropshiremoggie wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:00 pm
Thanks PB , you seem to have progressed further than I have . The issue I have is that my current Tax expires on 1/4/2019 but my MOT expires on 25/4/2018 !! As these dates do not coincide should I declare SORN until the exemption becomes live next month and then retax the car as it would be MOT exempt ??
This is still a grey area. The suggestion from DVSA is that, to use your circumstances as an example and as you've already renewed your tax this year, you should get the car tested this year, then declare it MOT exempt at next year's tax renewal. The DVLA seem unable to confirm whether or not this is the correct procedure.
That's the way I'm going. My next tax renewal is also 1/4/2019, and my current MOT expires 16/5/2018.

The lack of full information is not really acceptable. Whilst the DVSA are up to speed with the basics of the system, it is administered by DVLA. By the DVSA's own admission to me today, (quote) 'We're two government departments. We don't communicate with each other' :roll:
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Re: Mot

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:43 pm

Thanks again PB . When I tried to get clarification I ended up being bounced between the two government departments , each saying it was the others responsibility to explain . Neither could !!!!

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Re: Mot

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:53 pm

The Gov.Uk site for historic vehicles states ‘ You dont have to apply to stop getting an MOT for your vehicle each year , however , you must still keep it in a road worthy condition ‘.
Does that mean you have to register initially ???

palacebear
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Re: Mot

Postby palacebear » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:00 pm

I suppose the bouncing between DVLA and DVSA is no real surprise unfortunately! :(

As far as I've been told, you have to declare the vehicle MOT exempt once only, and it will then remain so unless you declare modifications etc which take it beyond the exemption boundaries.

I'm considering getting together all the information available in the public domain and contacting the Secretary of State for Transport and asking him politely what the heck's going on!
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palacebear
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Re: Mot

Postby palacebear » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:31 pm

Just stumbled across this. It encompasses the legislative changes which will occur next month, whilst also being relevent to the 'pre-1960' MOT exemption legislation introduced in 2012. It answers a few of the burning questions, page 3 being of particular relevance to Shropshiremoggie's query.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... idance.pdf

One question it doesn't address (and one which neither the DVLA nor the DVSA seem able to answer) is:

Does the vehicle have to be covered by a valid MOT certificate on the date you renew the tax and declare it MOT exempt...?

If the answer is 'Yes', this suggests that a restoration project being returned to use after possibly several years off the road will need to be (1) insured, (2) tested, (3) taken off SORN and taxed, then declared MOT exempt at the next tax renewal.
Last edited by palacebear on Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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palacebear
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Re: Mot

Postby palacebear » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:31 pm

Just stumbled across this. It answers a few of the burning questions.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... idance.pdf

One question it doesn't address (and one which neither the DVLA nor the DVSA seem able to answer) is:

Does the vehicle have to be covered by a valid MOT certificate on the date you renew the tax and declare it MOT exempt...?

If the answer is 'Yes', this suggests that a restoration project being returned to the road after possibly several years off the road will need to be (1) insured, (2) tested, (3) taken off SORN and taxed, then declared MOT exempt at the next tax renewal.
1956 4-door called Max

Shropshiremoggie
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Re: Mot

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:54 pm

Yes , you have raised the inevitable ( and seemingly unanswerable ) question . I think the one paragraph in the document you have found suggests ( or does it ) that I could use my vehicle without an MOT ( but taxed and insured ) until the next Tax is due and then declare it MOT exempt ! Or does it ?????????????? My head hurts , time for a stiff drink . Seriously , there must be many Classic owners with similar problems and yet no definitive solution .

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Re: Mot

Postby palacebear » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:56 pm

Shropshiremoggie wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:54 pm
I think the one paragraph in the document you have found suggests ( or does it ) that I could use my vehicle without an MOT ( but taxed and insured ) until the next Tax is due and then declare it MOT exempt ! Or does it ??????????????
I would exercise caution there. I think that no MOT and no exemption declaration made, could land you in bother especially if you drive past a lurking ANPR camera. My feeling is that one more MOT this year, then an exemption declaration with your next tax renewal is the safe (and possibly legal) option.
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Re: Mot

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:14 pm

Sound advice PB . I did omitt to mention that I would not use the vehicle between 25/4 ( when the MOT runs out ) and when ( in theory ) it becomes exempt next month . To lean on your knowledge if the car is insured and taxed , but no MOT , is SORN required ?

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Re: Mot

Postby palacebear » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:27 pm

If it's taxed then no SORN required but still not road legal without either MOT, or MOT exemption declaration made at post office counter.
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Re: Mot

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:37 pm

Me going round in circles . It would therefore seem ( as we have previously mentioned ) that I need to declare it MOT exempt when I next tax it and keep it MOTd till then. I suppose I could try declaring it MOT exempt next month . Oh well , a large tot beckons , thanks for all your input .

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Re: Mot

Postby jollysmart » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:57 pm

Shropshiremoggie wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:37 pm
Me going round in circles . It would therefore seem ( as we have previously mentioned ) that I need to declare it MOT exempt when I next tax it and keep it MOTd till then. I suppose I could try declaring it MOT exempt next month . Oh well , a large tot beckons , thanks for all your input .
Reading the latest Practical Classics it seems to suggest that you will not be able to declare MOT exemption until July, quite why is not really clear but it appears to be their view.

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Re: Mot

Postby palacebear » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:00 pm

Thinking outside the box... as perhaps you were...

SORN the car now and don't use it until after the new regs come into effect. Then tax it again and declare it MOT exempt. Might work...!
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Re: Mot

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:12 pm

I was thinking that may be the solution , great minds . I’ll sleep on it and decide tomorrow . There must be quite a few members of this forum who may have the same issue unless they have all decided to carry on with MOTs regardless .

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Re: Mot

Postby Admin » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:13 am

I was chatting to Sandy Hamilton about this scenario, since like others in this thread my tax renewal and MOT date are a long way apart. His view was that, while a vehicle was theoretically able to be MOT exempt from May 20, there was no mechanism whereby it could be declared so, at least until the tax fell due again, and therefore the vehicle was not exempt (using the theory that a vehicle isn't exempt until it is declared as such). That would seem to argue that only a tiny fraction of classics will be declared by owners as exempt in May - those who's tax is due at the beginning of June, followed by another 1/12th in June etc etc.
The only other thing of note is I understand from Sandys talk at the Liaison meeting a couple of weeks ago, a post-production convertible will require MOT as the change of body type is a 'substantial change' (unless the conversion was done thirty years or more ago). I have to say that seems a bit rough to consider a convertible conversion using established parts is 'substantial' while my own Traveller with a Ford gearbox and brakes among other mods will not need testing as the changes are "efficiency, safety or environmental performance" related ones! Not that that matters as while I'll declare VHI, I'm still going to submit the Traveller for testing purely for peace of mind.
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ek96
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Re: Mot

Postby ek96 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:18 am

I contacted the DVSA a few weeks back as my MOT ran out in March and my tax isn't due until Feb, the woman I spoke to said that I will (of course) be unable to drive the car without an MOT before the 20th May but I can after that, without declaring my car as SORN or anything...

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but it appears we all seem to have been given conflicting statements!

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Re: Mot

Postby palacebear » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:06 am

My understanding of the situation reflects that of Sandy Hamilton as detailed above by Admin (Mike D).

My car is already theoretically MOT exempt under the 'pre-1960 VHI' regs introduced a few years ago although it has never been declared as such and is tested every year. I've already renewed the tax for the next twelve months. The MOT runs out in early May, shortly before my wedding, for which the car is to be used. With plenty more pressing matters to occupy my time at the moment I was hoping to delay the MOT by a few weeks and remain road-legal. I've decided on the cautious approach, so MOT day next Monday and hope nothing nasty comes to light!
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Re: Mot

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:29 am

Re.ek96. Having slept on it , and having acheived nothing I decided to contact DVSA ( again ) . The advice ( this time ) was not to use the vehicle between the MOT expiring and it becoming exempt next month . From next month the vehicle can be used without a declaration having been made . The declaration should be made at the next due date for taxation , in my case 2019. So many spanners in the works its looking like a full toolkit !!!!!!

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Re: Mot

Postby ManyMinors » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:44 am

For the peace of mind - it is surely worth getting it MOT'd isn't it??
Even if the car doesn't need one it must still be maintained/repaired to an MOT standard so it seems to me that if in doubt......Get an MOT!
Just because you've been given advice by a Government department, it doesn't mean it'll stand up in law unless you have it in writing. Don't ask how I know......

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Re: Mot

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:55 am

Your advice is sensible , however in my case the vehicle has only covered a couple of hundred miles since its last MOT . It was in a workshop for welding work for part of the year and dry garaged for the remainder . I would add that the car is regularly started , brakes etc. checked and driven on a private lane to ‘ keep things moving ‘.


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