Vehicle inspection

[Maurice_Minor]

I am new to this forum & have owned a few Moggies when I was young (About 45 years ago) I have recently located a rather nice 1960 Convertible in the Canterbury area which is being sold by a reputable dealer. It seems to be nigh on perfect, but there is very little paperwork existing before 2002. I feel it would be prudent to have the vehicle looked at by someone with much more experience than me in Morris Minors, in particular the convertible versions.

Can anyone advise me if there is someone in the Kent area that can do such a appraisal & if so how much would I expect to pay.Thanks.

[mogbob]

If you want a professional assessment I'd have no hesitation in recommending Brian Page
http://classicassessments.com/about.htm
His website will tell you everything you need to know about his background. I known him for over 20 years
and what he doesn't know can be written on a postage stamp, a walking , talking encyclopedia with all the right credentials / qualifications. He also acts as an expert witness in Court cases. He travels the world for some of his "well heeled " clients interested in purchasing 7 figure supercars , so a visit to Kent won't phase him. He simply loves all classic cars and is a down to earth sort of guy.Phone / email him and have a chat.

You could hang on for a local member to volunteer for a second opinion but clearly , if there was a serious problem with the car which they failed to spot , then you wouldn't have any Legal redress against them.
It really depends on " how much " reassurance you want about the intended purchase.
A range of : " a nod and wink , I'd buy it if it were me ".... through to a fully documented engineers' report highlighting the defects and likely costs of rectification and legal redress , if a vehicle assessor failed to spot a defect.
Good luck with it.
Bob

[Maurice_Minor]

Thanks for your reply. I have been in touch with Brian already & am considering his service although it is quite expensive should I end up requiring him to view more than one vehicle, so I'm holding off till the last moment.
The main question & my biggest worry, is just how important is the provenance of the vehicle, as I said there is no paperwork before 2002 & I believe it resided in Spain for some time. It has a Heritage Certificate, does this have any real worth?
Would a Morris Minor aficionado walk away from a vehicle with such a big gap in provenance regardless of the car's condition? This is my main concern, not the car itself.
Your advice is most welcome.

[palacebear]

My tuppence worth... if the car is in good all-round condition, meets your wishes and the price is right, then buy it. I'm sure there are many very good Minors out their with huge gaps in their history. Don't forget that they were once nothing more than disposable family cars owned by folk who didn't anticipate the benefit of maintaining records. A heritage certificate will go a long way to verifying that the car hasn't been interfered with unduly.

My own Minor came with a huge 'history file' too big to read through before I bought the car. Took me two days to sort through it only to find it consisted merely of service history from 1959-62. Invoices and scribbled notes relating to repairs carried out between 1990 and 2005 and a few old MOTs from the same period. The rest was parts catalogues, old insurance certificates and other irrelevant material.

[kevin s]

As said you would be very lucky to find a minor with a full history, My main concerns would be is it a genuine convertible (heritage certificate should confirm this), and has any restoration work been done properly.

Buying it from a dealer means you also have a reasonable amount of legal protection if anything major turns out to be wrong.

[mogbob]

I agree with the guys comments.
Complete previous history comes in the nice to have category but not essential. Checking the Heritage certificate to confirm it started life as a convertible is a " must do ".
A genuine convertible will include a premium in the price being asked. The Heritage Certificate in this instance would boost the price because it guarantees the vehicle left the factory as a convertible.
A close second would be a later conversion from a saloon , carried out and documented by a Specialist company demonstrating reinforcement of the shell. In this case , where it left the factory as a saloon , the certificate
is merely " part of the trail ". The documentation recording the professional conversion would be more valuable.
The recent .. post 2002 paperwork at least brings you up to date with work carried out.
For most people the condition of the car is the most important thing. Finding an immaculate condition car with
full supporting documentation is a very rare animal !
Bob

[chickenjohn]

Whereabouts is the car? If it's local to Margate then I might be able to have a look for you.

I agree that condition and restoration quality is far more important that "provenance" and "History" on a Morris Minor, cheers John

[Admin]

Whereabouts is the car?

I'm going to hazard a guess that it's fairly close to Adisham, if it's the seller I think it is

[Maurice_Minor]

Indeed it is & I believe the dealer has been involved with MM's for 40 years.

[geoberni]

vehicle with such a big gap in provenance

Bahh Humbug... it took me nearly 6 months but when I eventually got a complete search of past paperwork held by DVLA, even they haven;t got the first 10 years for my car, the relevant County Record just didn't get transferred.
For 45 odd years, even the Chassis Number in the various Log Books was incorrect, only being resolved in 2011, So it went through several owners with an incorrect digit in the Chassis Number.
I posted about it here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68615#p625843

Go with your gut, you either want it or you don't. You say it's

being sold by a reputable dealer

So where's the problem?

[Maurice_Minor]

Maybe I should have said, "Reputable dealer" as he is established, but I've been out of the MM world for 45 years so I ma not up to date with who are the good or the bad guys. This is why I am being prudent in trying to get a second opinion on the vehicle. I believe it to be fine.

[ManyMinors]

A good dealer can have a poor car - just the same as a poor dealer can have a good car so it pays to be cautious. I imagine this is an expensive car? If so then it should be just about perfect. What are your requirements though? Are you looking for a car in very good condition or a car which is totally correct specification?? There is a difference.
For example, I can see pictures of a very smart 1960 Old English White convertible for sale in that area of the country which is described as being "excellent original" but has a good few variations from original specification - the biggest being the wrong interior for example. IF this important to you, that might be a downside. If that isn't a priority, you probably shouldn't worry about it. It looks a very nice car from the pictures alone. I would not be TOO concerned about the lack of written history IF the car is in top condition - which it really should be at that price.
It has plainly been re-registered at some time but that will almost certainly be the case with any car which has been exported at some time I suppose.

[Maurice_Minor]

The car isn't a white one, it is blue. I spent my early years driving old wrecks I used to buy from Garratt Lane auctions for £20-£30 so I know how old cars should drive. Last week I hired a 1962 Moggy Convertible for a day & it drove like someone had unscrewed every nut on the car a one and a half turns. It was like driving a washing machine on spin around the country roads, it didn't drive, it careered around the corners which was great fun if not a tad dangerous.

The car I am interested is exactly the opposite, it IS basically original, but not 100% it is very smart both inside & out. Most impressive, unlike the hire car, the vehicle feels "Tight" in every respect, I can't imagine even a new one in 1960 would have felt any different.I just can't find fault with it, which makes me suspicious. LOL

[ManyMinors]

The lack of roof makes many Convertibles feel a bit more "loose" than a good saloon, so if that one drives well and tightly and you're happy with the condition/specification it looks great. It's the Clipper Blue one I guess? It is a lovely period colour I think and (unusually) it seems to have retained its original registration which is a nice bonus. That wide panel seat pattern is correct for a 1960 car - unlike the interior in the white car. I can see a few incorrect details but what Minor doesn't have that?
Hopefully you can get somebody locally to check it out but I wouldn't personally be "suspicious" because a car drives so well! It just suggests that it has been well maintained - or well restored - and from what I can see it does look unusually original.
Do you feel you know enough about the construction of these cars to make a judgement of the underbody condition?

[Maurice_Minor]

I know what its supposed to be like, but only from a book, that's why I am trying to find someone experienced to give it the once over, I don't need a 300 point check, just an experienced eye.

[ManyMinors]

Maybe "chickenjohn" above can be persuaded to view it for you - for a reasonable consideration of course? At least he is in the same county.

[Maurice_Minor]

I sent a message, but I am not sure whether it got through as it seems to be sitting in my outbox.

[StillGotMy1stCar]

Messages sit in your outbox until opened by the recipient.
Good luck.
Regards John