E10 fuel introduction

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dudload
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E10 fuel introduction

Postby dudload » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:58 pm

Saw this today, moggies pretty high up the list on number of affected cars!

https://www.independent.co.uk/environme ... 09856.html

palacebear
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby palacebear » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:56 pm

If I've managed the 'copy/paste' properly, this should be the link to the government consultation:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -labelling

This should be the link to the FBHVC survey/consultation response.

https://paulc1.typeform.com/to/Bt7HKS
1956 4-door called Max

simmitc
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby simmitc » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:00 am

This is an important subject, but the consultation papers are 53 pages long and not "friendly" to read; and the response form is 12 pages. It's almost as if they were trying to discourage responses :evil:
Unusually, even the FBHVC survey is poorly designed, asking questions about "how many of your none/not applicable vehicles do you...".

palacebear
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby palacebear » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:27 am

Must admit I had trouble with the survey. It kept 'unchecking' the response to 'How many vehicles use 97 octane' and therefore not allowing me to state how much fuel I use annually :roll:

Also, depending on the source, there are two different dates given for the end of consultation period. Gov.uk state 16 September but elsewhere in the media, 31 August is quoted - wrongly I hope!

In any case, as consultation only opened on 20 July (without a huge amount of publicity) it was never going to give us a lot of time to voice our opinions!
1956 4-door called Max

Chief
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby Chief » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:45 am

Maybe I missed something but, why are all the survey questions related to only 97 octane?

Chief :)

palacebear
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby palacebear » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:26 pm

None of it is very clear to me. If my understanding is correct, the proposal is to withdraw the current 97 octane completely within the next two years, whilst at the same time, ready availability of the current 95 (E5) octane, referred to in the consultation as 'protection grade' is not being guaranteed beyond 2020. The proposed 95 (E10) fuel will have more ethanol content, which may or may not cause damage to some older engines.

My Moggie has a standard 948cc engine and hasn't been converted to run on unleaded fuel. I average 800 miles a year in it. I've run it on 95 octane, with and without lead additive. More recently I've switched to 97 octane. The engine runs noticeably more smoothly and, hopefully the fuel in the tank won't go stale as quickly as 95 octane does. Consequently I wouldn't want to see 97 octane disappear from the pumps.

If, as per the first post on this thread, the Morris Minor is at risk of damage from using 95 (E10) fuel it is probably more important to keep 95 (E5) fuel available indefinitely.
1956 4-door called Max

Monty-4
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby Monty-4 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:58 pm

My understanding is that an increased ethanol content would do the following.

1. Fuel will go "stale" more quickly in summer/show-only cars.
2. Moisture attracted by ethanol content could corrode fibreglass tanks, rubber fuel pipes and float bowls.

Perhaps moisture separating fuel filters like those used on marine engines would be a "belt and braces" fix, but I'm sure the additive industry will jump on this. Either way it doesn't seem to be a 'big deal' although there is a lot of scaremongering about. One might suspect a sizable number of the classic car 'community' are mildly averse to change. :P
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

palacebear
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby palacebear » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:08 pm

Monty-4 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:58 pm
Either way it doesn't seem to be a 'big deal' although there is a lot of scaremongering about. One might suspect a sizable number of the classic car 'community' are mildly averse to change. :P
I think, particularly with such a lengthy consultation document, scaremongering is inevitable; I'm sure many people will have skimmed through the document, focussing on elements they perceive to be relevant personally.

I'm still reading through it, but I keep falling asleep!
1956 4-door called Max

Monty-4
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby Monty-4 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:41 pm

Indeed! It's written in a style I find familiar as a data analyst.

The lovely thing about the Moggy is I have no doubt that we'll either have to do nothing or adapting to this will be simple and cheap.
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

Edward1949
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby Edward1949 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:24 am

Lots of info if you search "E10 fuel in historic cars" on YouTube. And lots of different opinions!
The USA seems to have been using E10 for some time, hopefully their classic car experts will have come up with some answers.
I already use an unleaded replacement additive - if I have to use an Ethanol antidote as well there won't be much room in the tank for basic petrol!!

Monty-4
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Re: E10 fuel introduction

Postby Monty-4 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:34 am

Some lead replacements also claim to protect against ethanol, such as the FBHVC endorsed Millers VSPe, to pick one at random (no affiliation). The proof will be in the pudding, or rather whether our hoses turn into pudding.
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.


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