A bit cheeky

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ianmack
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A bit cheeky

Postby ianmack » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 pm

The Automobile magazine takes itself quite seriously and is seldom given to levity. This month’s issue has a report on the auctions at the prestigious Pebble Beach event in California. Some of the world’s most desirable cars changed hands with prices going into seven figures. They couldn’t resist this item though,

‘1959 Morris Minor Traveller. Two owners, the second of whom is presumably still laughing at the price of $28,000 or £23,162.’

Hmmm.

jagnut66
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby jagnut66 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:25 pm

Personally I'd be laughing at anyone stupid enough to spend over 20 grand on a Traveller! They're not that precious!
Best wishes,
Mike.
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moggiethouable
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby moggiethouable » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:05 am

At just under £5.00 a copy it certainly does take itself seriously dunnit, or am I once again way out of touch,? :lol:
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moggiethouable
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby moggiethouable » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:35 am

Then I spotted this, maybe we undervalue our moggies.
https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/car-for- ... lue-4-door
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ianmack
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby ianmack » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:45 am

moggiethouable wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:35 am
Then I spotted this, maybe we undervalue our moggies.
https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/car-for- ... lue-4-door
Ah but, most of us haven’t bothered to polish the underside. :D

Myrtles Man
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby Myrtles Man » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:57 am

moggiethouable wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:35 am
Then I spotted this, maybe we undervalue our moggies.
https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/car-for- ... lue-4-door

And (sniff) I would have hoped that, by now, the people at Charles Ware might know the difference between 'concourse' (a large open area inside or in front of a public building) and 'Concours d'Elegance' or in shortened form 'Concours' (French expression, meaning 'competition of elegance') (sniff). :roll:

KeithL
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby KeithL » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:58 am

moggiethouable wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:35 am
Then I spotted this, maybe we undervalue our moggies.
https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/car-for- ... lue-4-door
I think we do. Prices are definitely going up for Travellers. £12,500 is now common in adverts (although that doesn't mean they sell for that), when a few years ago it would have been £6,000 - £7,500. Ours is insured for £15K and I'm looking to up that. One was sold at last year's NEC Classic Car Show and it went for 'silly' money. I can't remember exactly how much but it was between £20K and £30K and it was far from perfect, although I don't know its provenance so it may have been something special.


COMMANDER
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby COMMANDER » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:08 am

IMHO Charles Ware cars are much overpriced, although I am sure the quality is excellent.

geoberni
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby geoberni » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:16 am

He is letting this one go because "it is too good to use on the road".
...says the sales blurb, so you can buy it but don't dare go out in it.... :roll:
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Myrtles Man
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby Myrtles Man » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:56 am

COMMANDER wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:08 am
IMHO Charles Ware cars are much overpriced, although I am sure the quality is excellent.
But, presumably, they still find buyers for them. Do those buyers then join the OC and/or come on here, I wonder. Might be instructive to invite feedback/opinions from any that do, particularly as to whether or not, with the benefit of hindsight, they consider the price paid to represent reasonable value for money.

ianmack
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby ianmack » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:00 pm

Of course we must remember that those who buy at Pebble Beach live and think in a slightly different world from the rest of us...

‘Well, ah’d a gotten me a Pierce Arrow an a couple o’ them Duesenbergs so then ah figured to spend the change on someptn ah could actually drive around in...’

ManyMinors
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby ManyMinors » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:28 pm

COMMANDER wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:08 am
IMHO Charles Ware cars are much overpriced, although I am sure the quality is excellent.
I don't think that car could really be called a "Charles Ware car" can it? They did not carry out any of the work on it. That same car, in the same condition was featured on here when it was advertised elsewhere a little while ago at less than half that price. Even then, people seemed to think it was expensive as I recall! However, I am sure that full restoration - particularly of a Traveller - regularly costs owners more than the figures mentioned. How many hours would have to go into restoring a Minor to that standard? :o

I would guess that there are a few forum members whose Minors have cost them that much and more? They probably don't want to say so though. Those of us who bought cheapish Minors in the past and have the time, space and abilities to restore them at home have a great advantage over others who do not but still want to own one.

KeithL
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby KeithL » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:24 pm

ManyMinors wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:28 pm
I would guess that there are a few forum members whose Minors have cost them that much and more? They probably don't want to say so though. Those of us who bought cheapish Minors in the past and have the time, space and abilities to restore them at home have a great advantage over others who do not but still want to own one.
We started looking for a Traveller in 2009/2010. I can tinker with a car (I've got quite good at changing fuel pumps for example) but I'm not a car mechanic and we don't have the facilities for welding and painting even if I had the skills (which I don't) or the time, so a cheap project was out of the question. In any event we didn't want a project - we wanted a reliable car which we could drive. We looked at a lot of cars, most of which were drive-able, but were projects of one sort or another. We spoke to the likes of JLH and Morris Minor Millennium and to get a fully restored car we were looking at ~ £20-25K. We also looked at Charles Ware and costs depended on the condition of the base Traveller and exactly what we wanted doing. We looked at one for £9K. However, in 2010 we went to the local MMOC annual show and saw a Traveller that had been beautifully restored from bare metal by a chap who was an auto-painter by trade, and it showed in the quality of the paintwork. It had taken him 2 years. We bought it for £12K which probably didn't cover the cost of the parts he had bought (at a time when club members were telling us no one paid more than £6K for a Minor, and that would be Concours). It looks as good today as the day we bought it.

So, as ManyMinors said, those who have bought a cheap Minor and then been able to restore it themselves are at a huge advantage and possibly don't appreciate the true value of what they have.


RobThomas
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby RobThomas » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:27 am

We totted up the bills for one of our cars and it hit £15,000 (Lowlight) and another one hit £7,000 (52 Saloon). That was with a professional respray and us doing everything else. Scary how the bills stack up when you start rebuilding SV engines and fitting leather interiors.
Cardiff, UK

jagnut66
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby jagnut66 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:38 pm

I don't think we count the cost for two reasons:
1: Enthusiasts do it for the love of it, not for financial gain. We're not in it to drive prices up to the sky (where ordinary folk can't afford their dreams) and make a quick buck.
2: We take the view that we'd never get it back anyway.
Best wishes,
Mike.
(Still missing) Olwyn Image

SteveClem
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby SteveClem » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:22 pm

jagnut66 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:25 pm
Personally I'd be laughing at anyone stupid enough to spend over 20 grand on a Traveller! They're not that precious!
Best wishes,
Mike.
Here’s a story,Mike. About 9 years ago we had a bit of free cash and needed a second car for local trips. Ware’s rebuilt us a Trav with sensible upgrades. It’s been brilliant. Taken it all over the country. Even loaned it to a journalist during the last election campaign. Price at the time was a painful £18k, but the car has hardly depreciated at all. Had we bought a £10k Nissan, the other option we considered, it would be worth practically nothing now.
Reckon the Morris will outlast us...

irmscher
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby irmscher » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:10 am

Most of the dealers in England are charging silly money what happened to the cheap working mans car :-?

ManyMinors
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby ManyMinors » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:48 am

irmscher wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:10 am
what happened to the cheap working mans car :-?
I know what you mean, but I suppose after 50years of use, most of them required expensive restorations. Owners of restored cars will want a return on the money they have invested, so prices of the better cars has risen. It is a simple matter of supply and demand isn't it? Dealers can only ask prices that people are prepared to pay after all. There are lots of Minor still for sale privately but I don't think the better ones are advertised for THAT much less than dealers are asking are they?

The Traveller which started this thread was sold at auction, so there was no asking price anyway........You can't really argue against auction results can you? They are simply prices that buyers were prepared to pay and are therefore the market value at that time.

ALL the cheap cars of years gone by are now expensive. Look at the prices 1960s Minis are now fetching :o
There are still plenty of cheap cars for the working man but the cheapest cars won't be 1960s cars :wink:

geoberni
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby geoberni » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:15 am

irmscher wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:10 am
... what happened to the cheap working mans car :-?
:-? Well like many other items, if a car survives many times it's design life it attracts a higher price for 'collectability', especially if there is 'something about them' as with the Minor....

A Supermarine Spitfire cost £12,604 in 1939 (around £817,000 at today's prices based on inflation since then).
There's around 60 airworthy examples around the world and a restored one will sell at auction for over £3,000,000........
Basil the 1955 series II

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jagnut66
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Re: A bit cheeky

Postby jagnut66 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:16 pm

A Supermarine Spitfire cost £12,604 in 1939 (around £817,000 at today's prices based on inflation since then).
There's around 60 airworthy examples around the world and a restored one will sell at auction for over £3,000,000........
A Supermarine Spitfire is an icon and in in a totally different league to classic or even vintage cars. If I had a pilots licence I would consider it a privilege just to be allowed to fly one. Mind I would rather have been born into that generation or the one before and accept the risks that went with it, than be around now to see the state this countries in but that's a different conversation / argument. Suffice it to say if there is such a thing as reincarnation and I'm given the choice of going back I will.
Anyway back to classic cars, a Spitfire is not a fair comparison, is what I was getting at.

Price at the time was a painful £18k,
I know what I think of that but for once I'm not wishing to offend you. Suffice it to say there is not a chance in hell I would pay that for any Morris, not if I could buy three for that price just wanting a little work........

Oh, and one last thing, I think they should re-instate Empire Day as a bank holiday.............. now that will upset the politically correct 8) :lol: .......................

Best wishes,
Mike.
(Still missing) Olwyn Image


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