If I were you...

Discuss anything Morris Minor related.
CaliTrav
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If I were you...

Postby CaliTrav » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:02 am

Hi all,

This weekend I'll be craning the engine and box out of the Traveller to facilitate some work on the engine and 'box - and not least have a good clean and repaint of them both (as well as the bay!)

One of those sayings when offering advice is "If I were you..." - so - if you were me, and you'd gone to the effort of getting the front of the car dismantled and the engine out, what else would you check/replace/refurbish while access was good?

I've already decided to replace the water pump, and part of the reason for removal is to check and probably replace the starter ring. The gearbox is being swapped for a refurbished unit, and I'm replacing the clutch and spindle bushes. But in the time honoured tradition of "while it's out" - what else would you do?

jagnut66
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Re: If I were you...

Postby jagnut66 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:34 pm

Hi,
What condition is your radiator in?...……..
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......

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geoberni
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Re: If I were you...

Postby geoberni » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:43 pm

I'd check (or just replace) the rearmost Core Plug, since that's on the rear face of the Block.
Basil the 1955 series II

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Chipper
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Re: If I were you...

Postby Chipper » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:45 pm

Obviously, if going to the effort of swapping the gearbox, check the clutch plate and clutch release bearing are good. AFAIK, the gearboxes weren't painted, at least on ribbed case (1098cc) versions, but I stand to be corrected...
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)

SteveClem
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Re: If I were you...

Postby SteveClem » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:31 pm

If the box is out just do the clutch anyway, you might as well!

philthehill
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Re: If I were you...

Postby philthehill » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:24 pm

If you do decide to change the rear core plug you may as well replace the oil pump. If I were you I would. The oil pump is the beating heart of the engine.


ManyMinors
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Re: If I were you...

Postby ManyMinors » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:28 am

SteveClem wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:31 pm
If the box is out just do the clutch anyway, you might as well!
I would have agreed with you at one time. However, with SO many owners having problems with new poorly manufactured clutches, I would leave well alone if it was working OK and still has a bit of mileage in it :wink:

CaliTrav
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Re: If I were you...

Postby CaliTrav » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:47 am

Thanks for the replies guys,

- Radiator was new last year so that's in good nick
- Clutch plates were new last year, but will check the bearing, bushes, spindles etc. when it's all out.

Just on the clutch - what does everyone recommend? ESM are selling the Borg & Beck kit, but I'm reading as many horror stories as I am good reviews, people saying it's cheap chinese rubbish etc etc others saying it's absolutely fine. There's a checkered history of B&B becoming AP Driveline but B&B clutches were still being sold as well, but I can't find any AP clutches for sale now and all the posts that mention them are a few years old. Has it all changed again?

Probably a good shout on the oil pump. I'll have to check the receipt book to see when (if!) it was replaced with the previous owner. Peace of mind tells me it's probably worth replacing though.

myoldjalopy
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Re: If I were you...

Postby myoldjalopy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:03 am

Just out of curiosity - are oil pumps prone to failure? I've never had one fail in 37 years of 'minoring' (four different vehicles), although I've had almost everything else go wrong at some point! :-?

ManyMinors
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Re: If I were you...

Postby ManyMinors » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:22 am

CaliTrav wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:47 am
Just on the clutch - what does everyone recommend? ESM are selling the Borg & Beck kit, but I'm reading as many horror stories as I am good reviews, people saying it's cheap chinese rubbish etc etc others saying it's absolutely fine. There's a checkered history of B&B becoming AP Driveline but B&B clutches were still being sold as well, but I can't find any AP clutches for sale now and all the posts that mention them are a few years old. Has it all changed again?
As far as I know, "Borg & Beck" clutches are the ONLY clutches widely available now and are cheap imports with a poor reputation.
The original Borg & Beck tooling was, I believe, sold to a British company who did continue to manufacture and sell them under the "AP Driveline" name but as the price was relatively high, demand for them was relatively low - due to most people choosing the cheaper option. Eventually, due to the lack of demand, the original type clutches proved to be uneconomic to produce :(

philthehill
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Re: If I were you...

Postby philthehill » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:28 am

Oil pumps can fail.

The later oil pumps do not have the woodruff key to secure the rotor to the drive shaft. They are secured to the drive shaft by an interference fit. If the oil is thick say on a cold morning the drive shaft can turn and the rotor stays static resulting in the oil pump failing.

I always prefer to use a oil pump which has a woodruff key to drive the rotor. It is possible to selectively mix and match drive shafts and rotors to suit the camshaft. You can also use an adapter to allow the use of slot drive oil pumps with star drive camshafts. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mini ... SwyjBW4I9A

Pin drive oil pumps can have one or more of the drive shaft ears fail which leads to failure of the oil pump.

The biggest failure of oil pumps is caused by wear between rotor/annulus ring and body caused by the lack of oil changes and the use of poor quality oil.

Always go for a high volume oil pump, there is no such thing as a high pressure oil pump as the oil pressure is controlled by the oil pressure relief valve.

For the benefit that a new oil pump brings the cost of purchase is negligible. Every engine rebuild should include provision to replace the oil pump.

https://www.calverst.com/technical-info ... oil-pumps/


Edward1949
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Re: If I were you...

Postby Edward1949 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:23 am

ManyMinors wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:22 am
CaliTrav wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:47 am
Just on the clutch - what does everyone recommend? ESM are selling the Borg & Beck kit, but I'm reading as many horror stories as I am good reviews, people saying it's cheap chinese rubbish etc etc others saying it's absolutely fine. There's a checkered history of B&B becoming AP Driveline but B&B clutches were still being sold as well, but I can't find any AP clutches for sale now and all the posts that mention them are a few years old. Has it all changed again?
As far as I know, "Borg & Beck" clutches are the ONLY clutches widely available now and are cheap imports with a poor reputation.
The original Borg & Beck tooling was, I believe, sold to a British company who did continue to manufacture and sell them under the "AP Driveline" name but as the price was relatively high, demand for them was relatively low - due to most people choosing the cheaper option. Eventually, due to the lack of demand, the original type clutches proved to be uneconomic to produce :(
If the original clutch is mechanically sound a simple reline could be appropriate, thus retaining OE quality of the clutch. Eg: https://saftek.co.uk/friction-products- ... lications/

myoldjalopy
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Re: If I were you...

Postby myoldjalopy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:57 pm

philthehill wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:28 am
Oil pumps can fail.

The later oil pumps do not have the woodruff key to secure the rotor to the drive shaft. They are secured to the drive shaft by an interference fit. If the oil is thick say on a cold morning the drive shaft can turn and the rotor stays static resulting in the oil pump failing.

I always prefer to use a oil pump which has a woodruff key to drive the rotor. It is possible to selectively mix and match drive shafts and rotors to suit the camshaft. You can also use an adapter to allow the use of slot drive oil pumps with star drive camshafts. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mini ... SwyjBW4I9A

Pin drive oil pumps can have one or more of the drive shaft ears fail which leads to failure of the oil pump.

The biggest failure of oil pumps is caused by wear between rotor/annulus ring and body caused by the lack of oil changes and the use of poor quality oil.

Always go for a high volume oil pump, there is no such thing as a high pressure oil pump as the oil pressure is controlled by the oil pressure relief valve.

For the benefit that a new oil pump brings the cost of purchase is negligible. Every engine rebuild should include provision to replace the oil pump.

https://www.calverst.com/technical-info ... oil-pumps/
Thanks for that.......I guess I've just been lucky (so far!)

moggiethouable
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Re: If I were you...

Postby moggiethouable » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:43 am

Because I find it much easier to fall under the car than get up again these days. I would change the engine oil and filter.
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