Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

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Castanley
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Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Castanley » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:59 pm

Hi everyone, I wondered if I could pick a few brains on this one?

I'm only a novice at Minoring so still having to research everything to death, but I was of the belief that the saloon cars had 5-leaf springs at the rear and the heavier Traveller used seven-leaf springs? I'm planning to replace my springs & bushes (Series 2, 2-door saloon) over the next couple of weeks so I fired off an email to ESM to confirm if I was correct. They said that yes, I need the 5-leaf variety for my car so my intention is to order those next week.

So fast forward to today, I started to unwrap the gunky, tarry fabric tape that my springs had been wrapped in and guess what? My car currently has seven-leaf springs fitted! So could someone have fitted these intentionally to stiffen up the suspension or possibly just fitted the wrong ones out of ignorance? Very strange!

Chris
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"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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stevey
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby stevey » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:10 pm

Series 2 s had 7 leaf rear springs. The leaves were thinner than the later traveller 7 leaf type. Saloons later got thicker 5 leaf type. So the minor 1000 5 leaf type will be direct replacements.


Castanley
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Castanley » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:39 pm

Thanks Stevey,

So good to have knowledgeable people on here, that makes perfect sense. 🙂 Ok so it sounds like ESM were correct to tell me I needed the 5 leaf replacements. Looks like my seven leaf springs could be original? Impressive for a 66 year old car. 😯

Chris
"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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alanworland
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby alanworland » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:44 pm

If it were me and the springs were serviceable I'd re use them.
I bought new springs many years ago to replace my original 7 leaf ones and at that time didn't know they were thinner so bought 7 leaf springs, which were obviously thicker than the original.
Eventually when I got the car on the road it sat high and was so firm, as in no springing!
I removed the bottom leaf which improved things a bit, so I removed another and the ride height is about right and the ride improved.
Through all of this I really wish I'd kept the originals, they were far more comfortable!

Alan
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Castanley
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Castanley » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:08 pm

Although my springs don't seem to look too bad, the right hand one is sagging a bit causing the car to have a slight lean to the right. That's why I was planning to replace both with new 5-leaf ones.

Chris
"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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stevey
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby stevey » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:52 pm

Best to have both originals retempered and reset if possible.


Castanley
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Castanley » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:13 am

Out of interest has anyone here ever had leaf springs restored/retempered? Sounds like it may be more expensive than simply replacing them with new ones?

Chris
"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Banned User » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:58 am

Castanley wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:13 am
Out of interest has anyone here ever had leaf springs restored/retempered? Sounds like it may be more expensive than simply replacing them with new ones?

Chris
There have been posts here questioning the quality of springs available from the usual suppliers. Having yours restored may cost more but could be a better long term solution. IMO the springs available from ESM etc are too cheap to be made with decent steel.

Sleeper
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Sleeper » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:06 pm

I'll second the above..

Bought a nearly new set off Fleabay , and after fitting etc. found out why , they went back on there , with a full explanation , of course..

John ;-)

Castanley
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Castanley » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:36 pm

Thanks for the feedback, it's certainly given me something to think about.
As I already have a new set on order from ESM, I'll fit those and I'll keep hold of my old springs for retempering sometime in the future. That way, if the new springs prove unfit for purpose then the old'uns can go back on. Hedge my bets as it were!

I'm planning to attend a few events this year, the national, MOT UK, etc so I can't have a car with a saggy bottom. 😄

Chris
"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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Monty-4
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Monty-4 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:44 pm

Nice to see some springs with a wrap.

I believe leather wraps were/are also used to hold grease or thick oil in the springs, preventing corrosion and providing lubricant for a softer spring action. Spring wraps can still be bought last time I checked a search engine.

Strips of teflon between the springs can also do the job of lessening friction between them, and they benefit from having old engine oil brushed on occasionally. :)
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

Castanley
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Castanley » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:59 pm

Monty-4 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:44 pm
Nice to see some springs with a wrap.

I believe leather wraps were/are also used to hold grease or thick oil in the springs, preventing corrosion and providing lubricant for a softer spring action. Spring wraps can still be bought last time I checked a search engine.

Strips of teflon between the springs can also do the job of lessening friction between them, and they benefit from having old engine oil brushed on occasionally. :)
The wrap seems to be some sort of fabric, coated in a tarry waterproof substance. Horrible sticky stuff to remove! I suppose it could be something like "Denso" tape which I hear is what people sometimes use on leaf springs. I might get myself a roll and wrap the new springs once I've fitted them!

Chris
"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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alanworland
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby alanworland » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:09 am

My original springs were oiled and wrapped in a fabric based insulating tape.
Sounds like a good idea, helps keep lubricant in and dirt/moisture out although I haven't got existing springs wrapped they are kept clean.

Alan
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pgp001
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby pgp001 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:07 pm

I fitted a new set of 7 leaf ESM springs to my Traveller last year, and so far they are OK.

I did strip them down to the component parts and paint each part and then apply a coat of lubricant to the working faces before reassembling and fitting them.

The "Lubricant" is my own home brew of Waxoil and Foliac graphite flakes mixed into a sticky gloop and applied with a brush.

Phil

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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby philthehill » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:19 pm

If there is any recessing of the underside of a spring leaf caused by the end of the leaf below the recess the spring must not be lubricated.
Lubrication will allow the spring to flex more and the end of the spring leaf in the recess may hit the outer end of the recess -come to a sudden stop so breaking the leaf. Only if there is no recess/wear can the springs be safely lubricated.


Castanley
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Castanley » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:55 pm

Sorry to revive this old thread but I just wanted to post a quick update.
I finally finished the job and installed my new leaf springs, and while I was at it I cleaned the rear shock absorbers and filled them with fresh oil.
I did consider this job to be a bit outside my comfort zone but I took it slowly and methodically, asking advice along the way and I must say I'm very happy with the results. The car not only feels more sure footed and secure at the rear end but it also no longer creaks and groans constantly like a tired old mattress! 😄

I took plenty of photos along the way which I posted onto my blog, link below if anyone is interested.
I'd just like to say a big thanks to all the helpful chaps who offered me their words of wisdom. It make this a great club to be a part of. 👍

Chris
"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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Biggles1957
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Biggles1957 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:28 pm

I've had my 1934 Oxford Sixteen Six springs refurbished at Midland Motor Springs in Nottinghamshire. Obviously these are not readily available like those for the post war Morris's but excellent service and a cracking job done. I agree the modern replacement stuff is often somewhat dodgy!

Castanley
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby Castanley » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:49 pm

Well so far the modern springs are performing a lot better than the original ones but admittedly that's because the originals were knackered. 😄
I'm not disposing of the original springs though, I've stored them in the corner of my garage and one day I'll take them to a local specialist for refurbishing. They definitely look salvageable!

Chris
"Gussie", the 1954 Series 2.
My blog: https://castanley.wixsite.com/mysite

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jagnut66
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Re: Seven leaf or five leaf springs?

Postby jagnut66 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:48 pm

I've had my 1934 Oxford Sixteen Six springs refurbished at Midland Motor Springs in Nottinghamshire. Obviously these are not readily available like those for the post war Morris's but excellent service and a cracking job done. I agree the modern replacement stuff is often somewhat dodgy!
A useful recommendation, from someone who's had them done. :D
Without meaning to be rude, may I ask how many leaves to your springs have (each) and how much it cost, both as reference for myself and others on here who would be looking to get their springs retempered. Many thanks.
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......


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