DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Discuss anything Morris Minor related.
MCYorks
Minor Friendly
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:18 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby MCYorks » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:54 pm

The DVLA have apparently removed the previous keepers details from the V5C and now also refuse to release the keeper/owner history when the current keeper submits a V888 request. How is anyone able to verify a vehicles past history?
This would seem to greatly increase the risk becoming a victim of deception when buying a vehicle. I just wondered on other peoples thoughts regarding these changes? Very odd to change a system that has worked fine for decades without there being any obvious benefits.

KeithL
Minor Fan
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 9:06 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby KeithL » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:56 am

The change has been in place for a couple of years and had to be made to ensure DVLA was compliant with the latest data protection legislation. It is shame in many ways that you cannot contact previous owners any more but at least we known they are keeping our personal data safe.


simmitc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3760
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:43 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby simmitc » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:06 am

I view it as an unintended consequence of the General Data Protection Regulation (much of which originated in the EU, but is also a global industry in its own right), some of which is definitely good, some of which is definitely bad.

I doubt whether witholding the name and address of the first keeper from 1948 - 1971 really has any benefit today, and as you observe, is a real problem when researching history. There should be a scheme, limited to Historic Vehicles, whereby you can send a letter to the DVLA and they will forward it to all known previous keepers. That would be chargeable, but better than nothing. Even better would be to allow authorised owners clubs to have access to the previous keeper details for historical research and they could act as a go-between, releasing the details to new keepers once they had obtained agreement from the previous keepers, or ascertained that they were no longer available. After all, census data giving names at addresses is available, so what's so confidential about the fact that Mr. Smith owned a Morris Minor?

If you feel strongly, then write to your MP.

Banned User
Minor Fan
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:37 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby Banned User » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:53 am

People are obsessed with privacy these days. Just look at how few people use their real name on this forum. Why would that be?

KeithL
Minor Fan
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 9:06 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby KeithL » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:32 am

My background is information security and data protection. Having seen lives ruined by breaches of privacy I think people are right to be obsessed by it.


geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1297
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby geoberni » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:51 am

KeithL wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:32 am
My background is information security and data protection. Having seen lives ruined by breaches of privacy I think people are right to be obsessed by it.
Thumbs1.jpg
Thumbs1.jpg (11.91 KiB) Viewed 774 times
Just ask yourself, would you want to sell a car and then 20 odd years later have some nutter turning up asking questions about what you may or may not have done with/to it?

The DVLA will send you copies of the past V5s with the owners name address blanked out, but they'll leave the postal Town or County showing.

They did actually screw up on the records they sent me and forget to delete the name of Keeper 7 who had it for 7 months in 98/99 and lived in Portsmouth :wink:

But I know Basil started in Lincoln in 1955, then records jump to 1978 with transfer from the old County Records system, but still in Lincoln, so possibly the same keeper for 20+ years.
Then got moved in 93 to Bracknell, followed by Portsmouth, Berkshire, Lincolnshire, Birmingham and Hull, until I brought him 3 years ago.
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

simmitc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3760
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:43 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby simmitc » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:12 pm

My background is information security and data protection. Having seen lives ruined by breaches of privacy I think people are right to be obsessed by it.
My background too, and as I said, there are some good things in the GDPR, but there are also things which are bad. I cannot agree that anyone's life will be ruined by the knowledge that they once owned a Morris Minor! Data Subjects themselves post all sorts of far more dangerous information on "social media", and nobody bats an eyelid.

myoldjalopy
Minor Legend
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:32 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby myoldjalopy » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:30 pm

'geobernie': "Just ask yourself, would you want to sell a car and then 20 odd years later have some nutter turning up asking questions about what you may or may not have done with/to it?"
Why would they be a 'nutter'? In the past I have contacted previous owners of a car and they were most helpful with supplying information.
'simmitc' - I agree with your remarks about social media!

geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1297
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby geoberni » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:36 pm

myoldjalopy wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:30 pm
'geobernie': "Just ask yourself, would you want to sell a car and then 20 odd years later have some nutter turning up asking questions about what you may or may not have done with/to it?"
Why would they be a 'nutter'? In the past I have contacted previous owners of a car and they were most helpful with supplying information.
'simmitc' - I agree with your remarks about social media!
Actually a somewhat light hearted remark, but you never know who's out there...... :wink:
Making names and addresses readily available also helps with identity theft.
If you have historic detail about someone, you can build up a profile that lets you complete applications for loans etc.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... tity-theft
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

Myrtles Man
Minor Addict
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 10:49 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby Myrtles Man » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:14 pm

Banned User wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:53 am
People are obsessed with privacy these days. Just look at how few people use their real name on this forum. Why would that be?
Cos they've got something to hide? Not me though, that's why I use my real name. 🤣

les
Minor Maniac
Posts: 7607
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:00 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby les » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:20 pm

Heard about the couple who got their kid christened with a false name to protect him? :D


MCYorks
Minor Friendly
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:18 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby MCYorks » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:33 pm

KeithL wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:56 am
The change has been in place for a couple of years and had to be made to ensure DVLA was compliant with the latest data protection legislation. It is shame in many ways that you cannot contact previous owners any more but at least we known they are keeping our personal data safe.
DVLA are quite happy to release our personal data to private organisations and individuals. For example car parking & trespass management companies, solicitors, property managers, finance houses, etc. It may surprise you to know that some of these private companies can even request our personal data via a direct electronic link with DVLA. This way they can get our personal data super quick because the DVLA don't have to bother checking paper V888 requests! :o

Admin
Webmaster
Webmaster
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2001 12:00 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby Admin » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:01 am

MCYorks wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:33 pm
KeithL wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:56 am
The change has been in place for a couple of years and had to be made to ensure DVLA was compliant with the latest data protection legislation. It is shame in many ways that you cannot contact previous owners any more but at least we known they are keeping our personal data safe.
DVLA are quite happy to release our personal data to private organisations and individuals. For example car parking & trespass management companies, solicitors, property managers, finance houses, etc. It may surprise you to know that some of these private companies can even request our personal data via a direct electronic link with DVLA. This way they can get our personal data super quick because the DVLA don't have to bother checking paper V888 requests! :o
DVLA do not operate within the law in relation to selling private data to car park companies. But good luck in holding them accountable for their actions
Mike Dean
MMOC Webmaster
Image

Murrayminor
Minor Fan
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:47 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby Murrayminor » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:42 am

Admin wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:01 am
MCYorks wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:33 pm
KeithL wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:56 am
The change has been in place for a couple of years and had to be made to ensure DVLA was compliant with the latest data protection legislation. It is shame in many ways that you cannot contact previous owners any more but at least we known they are keeping our personal data safe.
DVLA are quite happy to release our personal data to private organisations and individuals. For example car parking & trespass management companies, solicitors, property managers, finance houses, etc. It may surprise you to know that some of these private companies can even request our personal data via a direct electronic link with DVLA. This way they can get our personal data super quick because the DVLA don't have to bother checking paper V888 requests! :o
DVLA do not operate within the law in relation to selling private data to car park companies. But good luck in holding them accountable for their actions
I think there is a difference between current owner/keeper information and previous keeper details.
One can understand (not necessarily agree) those companies which are listed under interested parties such as Insurance, parking, councils etc will have fast track access to the DVLA database.
The issue lies with obtaining previous keeper details.
The DVLA will not and cannot due to the aforementioned Data Protection release those details to an individual.

I wonder if the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs could apply to become an interested party to allow owners to access their historic vehicle details?

I may send them an email and ask that very question.
Proud owner of my first Morris Minor

KeithL
Minor Fan
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 9:06 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby KeithL » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:17 am

Admin wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:01 am
DVLA do not operate within the law in relation to selling private data to car park companies.
I think you will find DVLA do act within the law, but if you have evidence to the contrary then you need to report them to the Information Commissioner who will investigate and fine them heavily if you are correct.

The following document covers the whole issue of release of information from the DVLA register:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... isters.pdf


JOWETTJAVELIN
Minor Legend
Posts: 2303
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:20 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby JOWETTJAVELIN » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:08 pm

I tried to find out who was the first keeper of one of my cars from 1959 but the form was returned to me request refused.
Image

MCYorks
Minor Friendly
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:18 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby MCYorks » Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:40 pm

geoberni wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:36 pm
myoldjalopy wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:30 pm
'geobernie': "Just ask yourself, would you want to sell a car and then 20 odd years later have some nutter turning up asking questions about what you may or may not have done with/to it?"
Why would they be a 'nutter'? In the past I have contacted previous owners of a car and they were most helpful with supplying information.
'simmitc' - I agree with your remarks about social media!
Actually a somewhat light hearted remark, but you never know who's out there...... :wink:
Making names and addresses readily available also helps with identity theft.
If you have historic detail about someone, you can build up a profile that lets you complete applications for loans etc.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... tity-theft
I don't think many people would disagree that it's important to protect personal information. However the keeper history was only released to the current registered keeper. To obtain it they had to send a signed V888 form with proof of their address, which the DVLA would check and it had to match the details on the latest V5C. So there were plenty of checks in place to ensure the names and addresses were never readily available to someone who wasn't entitled to them.
The previous keepers details were included on the V5C which is of course a private document held by the current keeper. So again any names and addresses are protected.

MCYorks
Minor Friendly
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:18 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby MCYorks » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:22 pm

Murrayminor wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:42 am
Admin wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:01 am
MCYorks wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:33 pm


DVLA are quite happy to release our personal data to private organisations and individuals. For example car parking & trespass management companies, solicitors, property managers, finance houses, etc. It may surprise you to know that some of these private companies can even request our personal data via a direct electronic link with DVLA. This way they can get our personal data super quick because the DVLA don't have to bother checking paper V888 requests! :o
DVLA do not operate within the law in relation to selling private data to car park companies. But good luck in holding them accountable for their actions
I think there is a difference between current owner/keeper information and previous keeper details.
One can understand (not necessarily agree) those companies which are listed under interested parties such as Insurance, parking, councils etc will have fast track access to the DVLA database.
The issue lies with obtaining previous keeper details.
The DVLA will not and cannot due to the aforementioned Data Protection release those details to an individual.

I wonder if the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs could apply to become an interested party to allow owners to access their historic vehicle details?

I may send them an email and ask that very question.
You could say the main difference is current keeper information is much more sensitive, as the law dictates that it must always be kept up to date. The previous keepers details could have changed the day after they sold the vehicle. What's the chance of a keeper from 1979 or even 1999 still having the same address today?

Nothing obvious in GDPR / Data Protection that would prevent the DVLA releasing either current or previous keeper details to to an individual. Providing they have a 'reasonable cause' or 'legitimate interest' to obtain them.

Maybe the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs could help reverse these changes. They exist to represent the interests of historic vehicles owners. Being able to maintain keeper history and documentation for your vehicle or access the keeper history to confirm a vehicle you have purchased is legitimate are rather important interests.

jagnut66
Minor Legend
Posts: 2545
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:28 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: DVLA Records - Previous Keeper History

Postby jagnut66 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:49 pm

I have read and followed this post with a certain amount of despair, it is a sad statement on today's society and the times we live in that we have to be so secretive and guarded, right down to our name and current address, that our very identities, the thing that makes us who we are, can be so easily taken from us.
Perhaps this is in part why the past is so appealing.......
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests