Dash ashtray - What to replace it with?

[Andymoor94]

Hello!

I've been considering removing the, frankly god awful, ashtray from the centre of my 1954. The trouble is, I'm not entirely sure what the two grey parts behind it are and also not sure what to put there instead?

I had originally thought of putting a radio in its place, something of the era in terms of styling, but of course I'll need to upgrade to an alternator.

What do you think could go there?

(Pictures attached)

EDIT: Spelling

[pde2000]

The two grey things are light fittings, one a full beam indictor, the other a dash ilumination. I like the look of the grill, and i don't use the ash tray any more. I did fit a pair of car speakers above the parcel shelf, in the circular holes in the bulk head, using a bit of ply to fill them out. You can get away with positive earth when fitting a stereo, as long as the case work is insulated.

[jagnut66]

Hi,
There are two options that I can see, one is to replace for an plain grill as pictured below:

Morris Minor MM and Series 2 dash centre.jpg (30.04 KiB) Viewed 2233 times

If you like this idea then try club spares ('sparesman' on here - Bryan), he may even take your existing centre in part-ex if he has one, it's worth asking.
Option 2 is to remove the ashtray and replace it with something else, I found a small electric car clock which dates to the 1950's like my car.
As an aside it is 52mm, the same size as the ancillary instruments we can add.
If I can find one there must be others out there.

Ashtray replacement.JPG (764.39 KiB) Viewed 2233 times

Best wishes,
Mike.

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Why would you need an alternator.

[ManyMinors]

I was wondering the same thing My car seems to have functioned perfectly well for the last 60+ years of regular use without one.....

[ianmack]

Modern radios don’t draw a lot of current. Different perhaps if you fit heated screens or if you’ve found a vintage radio with valves.

[Andymoor94]

I was wondering the same thing My car seems to have functioned perfectly well for the last 60+ years of regular use without one.....

Modern radios don’t draw a lot of current. Different perhaps if you fit heated screens or if you’ve found a vintage radio with valves.

Why would you need an alternator.

My mistake, I was under the impression that an alternator was required for a radio. Not to worry!

Hi,
There are two options that I can see, one is to replace for an plain grill as pictured below:

Morris Minor MM and Series 2 dash centre.jpg

If you like this idea then try club spares ('sparesman' on here - Bryan), he may even take your existing centre in part-ex if he has one, it's worth asking.
Option 2 is to remove the ashtray and replace it with something else, I found a small electric car clock which dates to the 1950's like my car.
As an aside it is 52mm, the same size as the ancillary instruments we can add.
If I can find one there must be others out there.

Ashtray replacement.JPG

Best wishes,
Mike.

I like the clock in the centre, I may even make trim to go around it to cover the ashtray side bits that are visible. I'll get on the hunt for a clock now, I think!

The two grey things are light fittings, one a full beam indictor, the other a dash ilumination. I like the look of the grill, and i don't use the ash tray any more. I did fit a pair of car speakers above the parcel shelf, in the circular holes in the bulk head, using a bit of ply to fill them out. You can get away with positive earth when fitting a stereo, as long as the case work is insulated.

Ah, well mine have never worked, so I'll have to figure that one out. Do you know which is which?

EDIT Formatting

[geoberni]

Modern radios don’t draw a lot of current. Different perhaps if you fit heated screens or if you’ve found a vintage radio with valves.

I'm not convinced even a Valve Radio Receiver would require an Alternator. Even these guys would only have had a Dynamo.....

1948.JPG (73.16 KiB) Viewed 2195 times

I agree about things like Heated Screens and Halogen Headlights though.

[pde2000]

[/quote]
Ah, well mine have never worked, so I'll have to figure that one out. Do you know which is which?

EDIT Formatting
[/quote]

The right one is main beam (red filter) left one illuminator (there is a switch just below the dash) both MES bulbs.

[jagnut66]

there is a switch just below the dash

There was no switch for the dash lighting on my 1954 car, was that standard or optional?

As long as your main beam is operational then it will be either the wiring to the light or the bulb. Statement of the obvious, I know, however my point is that they are the same type of bulb inside both of these housings, so the simplest thing to do would be to renew the bulbs in each and see if that gets them working again.
As an aside I have swapped all my dash lighting (including those two) over to LEDs to improve brightness.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[jagnut66]

I like the clock in the centre

I have found this Jaeger clock on eBay (link below), it looks the right period, I suspect it will need repairing to get it going (but then so did mine), still nice for £45. Also the style of bracket (needing reshaping) on the back and how it compares to his hand in the first picture leads me to think this will be about the same size as mine.
Best wishes,
Mike.

https://pulsar.ebay.co.uk/plsr/clk/0/SA ... D%3D%22%7D

[pde2000]

there is a switch just below the dash

There was no switch for the dash lighting on my 1954 car, was that standard or optional?

As long as your main beam is operational then it will be either the wiring to the light or the bulb. Statement of the obvious, I know, however my point is that they are the same type of bulb inside both of these housings, so the simplest thing to do would be to renew the bulbs in each and see if that gets them working again.
As an aside I have swapped all my dash lighting (including those two) over to LEDs to improve brightness.
Best wishes,
Mike.

The switch is standard, even a picture of it in the handbook that comes with the car. The dash light only comes on when using the headlights/sidelights, but i suppose the extra switch is incase you don't want the distraction.

InkedIMG_20200509_182616_LI (2).jpg (1.75 MiB) Viewed 2156 times

Just checked the book, and the left light is a "lamp warning light" indicating the lights are on, whereas the switch is for the panel lights. I will have to check if the switch has any effect on the 'lamp warning light' - need to wait till it's dark.

Also the right one, with the red filter for main beam, is a 2.5V bulb, whereas the left one is 12V.

[jagnut66]

Also the right one, with the red filter for main beam, is a 2.5V bulb, whereas the left one is 12V.

They both appeared to be the same type of bulb when I removed them but then these things will have been changed through time and different owners, who were probably less concerned about what they should be, as long as they looked right, fitted and worked, which they did.
I take your point about the panel light switch though, Abbey my old two door had one, as I believe did Olwyn my last Series 2.
However no sign of one ever having been fitted to Sally, not that I'd ever want to turn my panel lights off anyway, what's the point of a speedo or fuel gauge that you can't see to read.
As to the switch itself, I can only assume some previous owner removed it for a reason lost in time.............
Best wishes,
Mike.

[geoberni]

I take your point about the panel light switch though, Abbey my old two door had one, as I believe did Olwyn my last Series 2.
However no sign of one ever having been fitted to Sally, not that I'd ever want to turn my panel lights off anyway, what's the point of a speedo or fuel gauge that you can't see to read.
As to the switch itself, I can only assume some previous owner removed it for a reason lost in time.............
Best wishes,
Mike.[/i][/b]

I believe you will find that the ability to turn off the Panel Lights is driven by the need to conserve the battery when street parking at night. As I recall, the Lighting Regulations were always along the lines of ..."when parking at night on a road without street lights, the vehicle must be illuminated with red/white lights to the front and rear."
So if parking on the sidelights, turning the panel lights off would be a small saving of battery power.
Hence the wide availability of the after-market clip on Parking Light in the 60s-70s which would meet the lighting regulations with just a single 2W or 3W lamp rather than 4 sidelights.
This one currently on ebay has an original marked price of 10/6!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-SEDA ... SwTm1dXncQ

There is no indication in the workshop manual that the ability to cancel the panel Lights was anything other than a standard feature page N20:

Switch.JPG (63.01 KiB) Viewed 2091 times

[jagnut66]

I believe you will find that the ability to turn off the Panel Lights is driven by the need to conserve the battery when street parking at night.

Interesting, I didn't know that. It certainly makes more sense of the presence of a panel light switch in the car.
Like I said though, mine is long gone. Looking at the area even the slot and screw holes don't look like there has ever been one fitted (clean undamaged paint).
I do like that parking light though, I may even bid for it, it would make an interesting talking point and may even come in useful.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[Sleeper]

I have one , but have fitted it with a LED bulb , should be safe for all night long..

John ;-)

[jagnut66]

Hi Andy,
I notice that the Jaeger car clock is no longer available, did you buy it?
If not then here's a few possibilities I noticed if you still want one. One is in slightly better condition than the other but as these are a common instrument size (52mm) the chrome bezel is easily replaced with one from another (fuel gauge / oil pressure gauge etc, whatever you can get your hands on).
They are Smiths ones similar to mine (but slightly cheaper).
Like mine it will need a replacement bracket, as it is missing but both these and the thumb nuts are available new.
I've attached links below for you or anyone else interested.
Best wishes,
Mike.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-SMIT ... SwC4ZepbIX
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Smit ... SwJBZcMS37
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-52mm-Jaege ... SwiFBelx9E
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-52mm-Jaege ... Swaalb3f6f
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smiths-Instr ... SwUg9aVnEg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smiths-Instr ... SwAWlaVnC3

Nb: There are modern versions available but these are more expensive:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-BRIT ... SwWxNYyqSM

[Andymoor94]

Hi Andy,
I notice that the Jaeger car clock is no longer available, did you buy it?
If not then here's a few possibilities I noticed if you still want one. One is in slightly better condition than the other but as these are a common instrument size (52mm) the chrome bezel is easily replaced with one from another (fuel gauge / oil pressure gauge etc, whatever you can get your hands on).
They are Smiths ones similar to mine (but slightly cheaper).
Like mine it will need a replacement bracket, as it is missing but both these and the thumb nuts are available new.
I've attached links below for you or anyone else interested.
Best wishes,
Mike.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-SMIT ... SwC4ZepbIX
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Smit ... SwJBZcMS37
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-52mm-Jaege ... SwiFBelx9E
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-52mm-Jaege ... Swaalb3f6f
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smiths-Instr ... SwUg9aVnEg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smiths-Instr ... SwAWlaVnC3

Nb: There are modern versions available but these are more expensive:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-BRIT ... SwWxNYyqSM

Hello again,

I did in fact buy it. I watched it and the seller sent an offer of £22, so I snagged it!

Thanks for the suggestion. Gonna spend a good evening making a fitment solution for it

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

The panel light switch is a boon for night driving. You would certainly be switching it off if you had to drive through dark countryside for miles and miles.

[jagnut66]

I did in fact buy it. I watched it and the seller sent an offer of £22, so I snagged it!

Hi Andy,
Well done, that was cheap.
It will probably want repairing though, if you're not doing it yourself then I can recommend JDO Instruments.
I have used them for speedos in the past and my clock, I will be going back to them when the time comes to re-calibrate my speedo.
I have attached a link below if you want to check them out.
Best wishes,
Mike.
http://www.jdo1.com/