Pay as you go.

[utilly]

I just read the article on the BBC news website about Darling Alistair's latest pitch to replace the fuel tax and road tax with a mileage charge. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4610755.stm

Would anyone care to suggest the best way of installing satellite tracking to a 1970 four door saloon with the original electrics?

Is it just me or is this the plain stupidest idea they have heared since ID cards for just, so, so, so, many reasons?

I read the other day that Oregon, (My partner's State) was about to start trailing a system like this and that the idea was comming out of Arnie's state of California.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2004/08/1 ... cle_208035

Apart from the obvious technological challenges that this would present. (No really, do they do these in reverse polarity flavour?) The IT would be like all there other big government IT procurements, spiraling costs, delays, etc.

Add the whole ID card thing to that and I'm right with Annalee Newitz, policy analyst for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation."You're setting up a system of surveillance allegedly to aid with taxation," said "This is incredibly invasive."

Also, wouldn't it favor 'Chelsea tractors' on the school run and penalise economical cars?

Nice. Would anyone care to fashion me and Gladys matching tin foil caps?

[bigginger]

Hmm - I'm a lifelong Labour voter (with the single exception of this time), and an ex Party member (I left when Blair became leader), and can only think that they have collectively and simultaneously lost their marbles. Just as I will not carry an ID card, I will not be satellite tracked by the government. If Blair wants to give me a personal 'phone number, I'll happily call him every five minutes and let him know where I am though...

[Onne]

They want to do the same thing over here. I'd give it the same answer as to th European law thing, which is a modest NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[TerryG]

Has anybody seen that episode of southpark when cartman has a satellite dish inserted somewhere that cant be mentioned here? How long will it be before that happens in reality?

[Onne]

did see that.. I heard there were plans on inserting chips into the body, so everyone can be checked when arriving/leaving a country. sound equally barmy if you ask me

[jonathon]

Many insurance companies are currently trialing GPS systems, so they can check on how safe a risk you are. A friend next door to me has been on trial for about 4 months and recons its a good form of improving your driving!!?. Apparently they can tell exactly where you are and at what speed you are traveling, if you constantly drive in excess of the speed limit you are refused insurance. This system is going to be adopted by all companies eventually. The unit is a stand alone system like a radar detector. Oh happy days!!!

[woo]

"You're setting up a system of surveillance allegedly to aid with taxation," said "This is incredibly invasive."

I agree, but then how many of you leave your mobile phone on all day. Effectively you're just as trackable

[simmitc]

The idea is just so that "they" can keep tabs on everything that anyone does. Really really worrying for civil liberties. Real criminals will, of course, just avoid it; but ordinary folk won't be able to move without the Governemtn knowing about it. Once upon a time the NAtiona Council For Civil Liberties would have been up in arms, but I haven't heard much about them for ages. We desperately need a dose of common sense injected into Blair and his cronies.

[Futurebobbers]

Well, I voted Labour last time, but only to cancel out a Tory cross. Like Andrew, I won't carry an ID card and think it's an insane waste of our money.

But I will reserve judgement on the PAYG road system until they tell us exactly how much petrol duty (& road tax for our younger cars) will be reduced by. It could just work out cheaper for me pottering about in the middle of the night.

- Peter

[wannabe]

Hmm, how about we all club together and buy an island, our own rules, no ID cards, no trackable thingummies and you have to own (or be saving up for) at least one moggie.

Don't laugh, the way the Government's thinktank has been disgorging all that stuff they are full of, (I'm a lady I can't say that word), has been making me think seriously about where I would go to live if they ever introduce all these ridiculous ideas.

[Onne]

You lot are on an island...... why not kip out those politicians, make it Minor Britain instead of Great.... or hijack Guernsey

[bigginger]

making me think seriously about where I would go to live if they ever introduce all these ridiculous ideas.

Yup, me too... and I mean seriously.

[jollysmart]

The problem that I have with this is that it assumes that all of your motoring is either to get to work or to drop off/pick up the kids from school. If you put a charge onto every mile at the levels proposed as well as the proposed method of charging for insurance motoring sudenly becomes (even more) expensive. Trips to the country at the weekends will also attract charges and you just have to wonder how long before road tax and fuel duty would return, otherwise with the duty removed there is no incentive to not run a sub 10 MPG 4X4, the greens would love that!

Like the London congestion charge it hits those who can least afford it the hardest. The Lowlifes would soon have their transmitters either removed or covered in tinfoil / lead to stop them working. Also who pays for these boxes to be fitted? I would wager that it won't be the government so if you have 2 or 3 cars with a fitting cost of say 500 quid the savings aren't easy to see.

regards
Michael

[rayofleamington]

Speaking as a person who ran up to 4 cars simulataneously, covering less than 15K miles altogether the cost of all this technology compared to the benefit would be stupid.
If they want to stop congestion, they should ban selfish parents from driving their kids a couple of miles to school! The extra traffic makes it more dangerous for everyone - including kids and the reduction in congestion would improve the air quality far more than this new silly tax idea. Added to that, all the fat lazy kids would be healthier and more alert.

If they do go ahead with it, modern cars now need dealer diagnostic software and a fairly non-crackable code to clock the mileage, therefore I hope they just apply the rule to post 2000 cars Maybe starting in 2010? That way all the technology wouldn't be needed and the car enthusiast wouldn't be screwed over.

On the plus side - this will do Tory Bliar's political lifespan what the poll tax did to Commandant Maggie...
I wonder who will come next

[samheath100]

I am nearly 17 and next year will be oly earning about £130 per week. That sounds a lot for a 17 year old but infact its slave labour. By the time ive givven the old girl some money i need to spend the rest of it on the mog to get to and from work. I like the moggy itself, I think its a great car, BUT one of the main reasons i bought it (Appart from looks) is because it has cheaper insurance and no tax costs. Do you think that they will let classic cars on the road for a lot cheaper than modern cars. Another thing, how are people supposed to go on holiday? are they supposed to walk or something. Tourism brings half the money into this country and if they try to stop people going out by FORCING THEM ON THE BEACH then tourism will drop and the country will recieve less money meaning that our tax will increase. In my oppinion the whole ides is bad and should not even be considered. I have also just worked out that if you do an average of 12000 miles per year ( roughly average of UK residents) than it will cost you £16080 who earns that. I certinly will not be earning that, and even if you earnt more than that by the time you have paid bills you will be broke. I think id soooner have conjestion than this.

[MinorMattersEditor]

One answer is to do absolutely nothing. The traffic congestion will become even worse and nothing will be put in place to discourage the likes of the Chelsea Tractors from taking darlings to school at a slower pace than walking. I think it a turn around that they are actually talking about possible solutions rather than doing nothing.

All this waffle about personal liberty. Everyone leaves there mobile switched on and lets face it who in government really gives two hoots for the fact that my car is parked in my front garden or clogging up the M25. Other than the fact that perhaps a fairer way of paying for the new roads to cope is to get the actual users to pay. Much better than the silly idea of all that fuel duty that I pay for driving my car on quieter roads.

Just as sinister are the reasons that we all have loyalty cards, so that the supermarkets can work out what we buy. What is the problem with any of this?

Let's face it, it's just discussion at the moment and isn't it better to think of some other solutions for a system that is struggling now rather than as has happened in the past, either nothing at all or a half baked solution cooked up by people with merely a political agenda! I am all for a sensible price for petrol or diesel in return for actually paying for the road that my car wears out.

[woo]

I'm not going to work myself up into a lather about this. When I saw the article on the news this weekend it said that prices would be variable, with the highest charges payable for heavily congested routes during busy periods. They quoted the M6, which now has a toll road (initial hue and cry) bypassing the chronic section at Birmingham, and the M25 which is often at a standstill at the Western end. It said that quieter roads would be chargeable at a much lower rate. To offset this they would be thinking of reducing/cancelling Fuel Duty and Road Tax. Alistair Darling has said that it will probably take 10 years to get public acceptance of the plans and around 6 more years to set up a trial, so that's about 2021. Goodness knows what roads will be like then. We'll probably be glad to pay just to be able to get on them!

Regarding personal liberty, that battle was surrendered a long time ago: We want mobile phones - we are trackable. We want to use Credit Cards - We are trackable. We want loyalty points - The supermarket knows all about us. So unless we are prepared to turn our phones off, use cash or cheques all the time and be prepared to forget the 1% Supermarket loyalty bonus there's little point about talking about invasion of personal liberty.

I love this country and, having travelled, wouldn't want to live anywhere else. However I believe that in any country personal liberty is an illusion. People in any country move within either clearly defined or unseen boundaries. Countries currently know, or can get, as much information that they need about any of us. We are fortunate to live in a country that supports personal liberty and freedom of expression, but, in the unlikelihood of the political climate changing drastically overnight, we would find out pretty darn quick how much information there already is about us out there.

[hornmeister2000]

Well I think it would save me money, but I'm against it on principle. The thing is, they'll also then use the system for monitoring your speed, which'll lead to massive revenue from small speeding offenses to top it all up, so I'm 100% against it. It's just another bit of the Big Brother state we live in.

We live quite near Dover and often go to France for the day. If I spoke better french I'd move there today - less people, cheaper everything, better service everywhere and no nanny-state government. Better start learning french then!

[ColinP]

I just wonder if this new technology will work with positive earth.....?

And just how many times there will be a "poor connection at the fuse-box"......

Colin

[bigginger]

All this waffle about personal liberty. Everyone leaves there mobile switched on...

Not everyone, not me,

Just as sinister are the reasons that we all have loyalty cards

Oh no we don't!

We want to use Credit Card

Err... nope - don't have one.

We want loyalty points - The supermarket knows all about us.

See above - that's why I don't have any

We want to use Credit Cards - We are trackable.

No - though I do occasionaly use my debit card, which amounts to much the same thing, especially when used at a cashpoint. Nothing's perfect!

So unless we are prepared to turn our phones off, use cash or cheques all the time and be prepared to forget the 1% Supermarket loyalty bonus there's little point about talking about invasion of personal liberty.

That's ideal - and just what I do, so I'll carry on talking about personal liberty, if it's OK by you