Disc brakes

Discuss anything Morris Minor related.
liammonty
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby liammonty » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:18 am

ampwhu wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:42 am

No. It's very simple to understand that discs v drums only has one winner. If you want to poodle around back lanes where there are no cars, stick to your original drum brakes. On the main roads, its different. I think people seem to forget it's not 1964 anymore. There is more traffic on the roads these days.
Fair point. I’ll get rid of my Minors, as they are outdated. And you should definitely get rid of your A35 With its poor 1950s handling. Even with disc brakes, it’s archaic by 2020 standards. As you say, there’s a lot of traffic about these days.

kevin s
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby kevin s » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:29 am

I think the debate will be very much tainted by ones experiences, I've just been on holiday to central wales and I am sure you drive a standard minor around there with no problems, hardly any cars and most people leave drive fairly sensibly.

Then I get home close to London, it's impossible to leave a decent gap in front of you on any dual carriageway because someone (usually in a large German car) either decides he needs to be in it or attaches himself to your back bumper because you are clearly not trying hard enough to push the car in front along, in this scenario you need brakes that get at least vaguely close to modern performance otherwise you are simply going to end up rear ending someone.

As to servo's the brakes will work fine with or without (we have one on the minor my son and wife drive but not on the elan), but if you have someone swapping regularly from modern cars fitting one does make it seem more "normal".

geoberni
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby geoberni » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:40 am

ampwhu wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:42 am

No. It's very simple to understand that discs v drums only has one winner. If you want to poodle around back lanes where there are no cars, stick to your original drum brakes. On the main roads, its different. I think people seem to forget it's not 1964 anymore. There is more traffic on the roads these days.
Great, so Discs could help you stop faster.
However the car is 1940s design, so doesn't have al the other improvements of the past 80 years, like
crumple zones to front, rear and sides,
collapsable steering column,
power steering,
protected fuel tank,
modern tyre contact area to weight and balance calculations,
inertial switch to turn off the fuel pump
Head support in the seats
and the list goes on....

I think some people don't understand the concept of the evolution of design and fail to understand how one improvement interacts with one or more other changes.
What's the point in stopping 'on a sixpence' if you're then hit from the rear and get flattened because you haven't all the other improvements?
You've made it abundantly clear you're not going to change your opinion, but please stop trying to make out it's the only valid one.
Basil the 1955 series II

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ManyMinors
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby ManyMinors » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:54 am

Quite :roll:

myoldjalopy
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby myoldjalopy » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:13 am

And ditto - well said, 'geobernie'.......idiotic, cavalier drivers are far more dangerous than properly adjusted Morris Minor drum brakes. Disc brakes on moderns have not prevented the hundreds of thousands of annual car crashes on our roads, rural or otherwise. I've never crashed into a car in front of me in over 35 years of driving drum brake Minors, but have had a rear end shunt from a modern van - no doubt equipped with disc brakes :-?

Owlsman
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby Owlsman » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:00 pm

Beat me to it guys! My sentiments exactly, 'geobernie'.

I might have mentioned this once before on this forum but I've had 3 MGBs over the years yet I was never tempted to fit power steering, spax shockers, power windows or even a burr walnut dashboard etc. etc. If those are the creature comforts that you crave, better to buy an MX5 in the first place and save yourself a lot of time and effort.

I love driving my Moggy.......JUST BECAUSE IT IS A MOGGY........i.e. with its rattles, no air-con, no auto wipers, no parking sensors, no rear-view camera, no 5th/6th gears etc and all manor of warts and all.

moggiethouable
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby moggiethouable » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:48 pm

I would have thought if a 1275 or otherwise quick engine was fitted then discs may be a good idea.
I cant recall who, but someone a while ago mentioned that there are fewer original minors on the road these days.
I built a car once, a kit based on a cobra design, with Ital pedal box, rover v8 engine, cortina discs up front, granada rear drums and axle, mini heater and the list goes on.
It was quick, light and looked pretty good, but it wasnt a cobra.
So a whole new can of worms is now opening (once again) when is a Minor not a minor ?
When its fitted with Newton seats ?
Or perhaps a fiat twin cam ? leading to disc brakes.
Or coils over shockers?
The experience of driving a Minor is to me a blessed delight, no power steering, just light rack and pinion, 0-60 in as long as it takes, driving at a speed and distance commensurate with the drum brakes, listening to the fart of the not so mighty A series engine and noting the admiring glances of fellow drivers and pedestrians alike.
On stopping and chatting with folks there is always a story of course of how they owned one or someone else in the family did.
Interestingly no one has ever asked me how I have improved it.
The smell, the sight, the sound all evoke memories for them and for me.
So, in summation, there are Minors and cars that look like Minors, this is not to denigrate the skills of the engineers that modified them, simply to point out that a Minor owner has to ask himself before he modifies it, does he want a minor, or something that looks like a Minor, and again, when is a minor not a minor ?
I look forward to the flak.
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KeithL
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby KeithL » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:38 pm

No flak from me moggiethouable. I agree completely with what you say.


neilmorey
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby neilmorey » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:48 pm

Whilst a Minor is never going to get a Euro Ncap rating it did have good safety features for its day. The position of the steering rack in theory didn't require a collapsible column as in event of a crash it should pivot away from the driver. Not sure I'd want to test it out first hand.

Disc brakes are never going to be a bad idea, better stopping power, better heat dissipation so less prone to overheating on long descents ( low gear for engine braking will help too) discs work better after driving through water, self adjusting so less maintenance and less prone to seizing when laid up.

Not sure what the bad points are other than cost and non-original.

My car has discs (no servo), Ford Ka leather front seats on a sub frame, front and rear seat belts, halogen headlights and LED rear lamps, intermittent wiper module, ESM van wheels with radial tyres. These are certainly not original but they useful modifications that I feel make the car more usable and other than the seats not exactly noticeable.

Swapping from my every day car to the Morris at the weekend I forgot it didn't have an auto handbrake- something that I vowed never to have but is now 2nd nature.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1227pib ... p=drivesdk

The important thing is that people enjoy using their cars.

ampwhu
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby ampwhu » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:53 am

liammonty wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:18 am
ampwhu wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:42 am

No. It's very simple to understand that discs v drums only has one winner. If you want to poodle around back lanes where there are no cars, stick to your original drum brakes. On the main roads, its different. I think people seem to forget it's not 1964 anymore. There is more traffic on the roads these days.
Fair point. I’ll get rid of my Minors, as they are outdated. And you should definitely get rid of your A35 With its poor 1950s handling. Even with disc brakes, it’s archaic by 2020 standards. As you say, there’s a lot of traffic about these days.

My austin has no trouble with its road handling. It has a frontline suspension set up and a rear gas struts. Visually it looks normal.

philthehill
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby philthehill » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:42 am

My Morris has no trouble with its road handling. It has a philthehill suspension set up and rear tele dampers. Visually it does not look normal. :wink:


Pete Bags
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby Pete Bags » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:08 am

Many, many years ago, I drove my then Traveller to the south of France and northern Italy with three friends and camping gear. Before setting off, I adjusted all of the drum brakes and the car performed brilliantly. However, on the return trip which included a rather mountainous area, my life flashed before my eyes as the brakes pretty much vanished when asked to work. There was very little warning that the pedal would travel pretty much to the floor with very little response.

Fast forward many years, and I am still enjoying long trips (West coast of France last year) but I am very pleased to have fitted servo assisted disks to my present moggy. I feel safer, and more importantly, I want my better half to feel confident when driving. I still consider my car to be a moggy.

I think it's great that there is such a variety of Morris Minors still driving on our roads - from concours originals to subtle and not to subtlety modified cars. Each to their own!

My last house was a Victorian cottage - lots of lovely original features and I loved living there. But I'm very glad it had been upgraded into having an inside toilet and bath, central heating and running hot water!

It would be interesting to do a forum canvas on how many people drive modified Minors compared to complete originals - can this forum host such a thing?

Shropshiremoggie
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:25 am

My car was purchased new by my Uncle in 1970 . Nothing has been ‘ upgraded ‘ although any necessary servicing and replacement of parts has been done to try and keep it ‘ original ‘. My first car was a 1935 Austin Ruby with cable brakes . Now that was fun . Foot hard down and the cables stretched !!!!! I’ve had many ‘ moderns ‘ since but driving the Moggie , as it is , fills me with nostalgia of a bygone age . Getting old I suppose 😂.

ampwhu
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby ampwhu » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:41 pm

i bet 99% of the people who have been on this post have a 'smart phone'. You know the one, the phone where you can do almost anything on it these days.

Why do you need such a phone when all you need a phone for is to call someone or text them? back in the early days of mobile phones, you only had an old nokia which you could only phone or text from. You didn't need to get a new smart phone but you did.

drum brakes are like old nokia phones. they belong in the past. remember where you used to be and improve the functionality to improve.

geoberni
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby geoberni » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:03 pm

So my closing comment from yesterday morning is reinforced by your persistence.....
Basil the 1955 series II

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ampwhu
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby ampwhu » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:30 pm

geoberni wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:03 pm
So my closing comment from yesterday morning is reinforced by your persistence.....
have you ever seen any of my modified vehicles? i read you list and laughed in all honesty. my persistence is based on common sense and safety for myself and anyone travelling in my car with me.

people have been modifying classic cars for the last 50/60 years. pretty much after they were built. They kind of saw the downfalls that the manufacturers didn't see. Not a lot of different to todays society with modern cars.

i look at it like the rat race. You snooze and you loose. Meaning you'll be bringing up the rear.

SteveClem
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby SteveClem » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:20 pm

I think it’s horses for courses.... we can do ,or not do, whatever we choose to our cars. Provided it’s legal of course :D.
And the degree to which we ‘improve’ them depends upon personal taste and how the car will be used.

Shropshiremoggie
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:26 pm

Funnily enough I don’t have a smart phone !

ampwhu
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby ampwhu » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:11 pm

Shropshiremoggie wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:26 pm
Funnily enough I don’t have a smart phone !
great! i hate them as well.

geoberni
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby geoberni » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:30 am

It's fairly obvious that ampwhu is not going to accept any view that doesn't match his own.
I found the phone analogy quite laughable, since he was comparing phones to brakes, the older generation of phones to Drums and the newer 'smart phones' to Discs.

In reality the comparison should be Phones to Cars.
Should you get an old Nokia or Motorola and try to upgrade bits of it like the processor, or add bluetooth to it, or if you want all those new features, just buy the smart phone....

ampwhu clearly has a poor opinion of me and anyone else who doesn't agree with him.
ampwhu wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:30 pm

have you ever seen any of my modified vehicles? i read you list and laughed in all honesty. my persistence is based on common sense and safety for myself and anyone travelling in my car with me.

people have been modifying classic cars for the last 50/60 years. pretty much after they were built. They kind of saw the downfalls that the manufacturers didn't see. Not a lot of different to todays society with modern cars.

i look at it like the rat race. You snooze and you loose. Meaning you'll be bringing up the rear.
Quite frankly, I don't give a damn about what you do to your vehicle, not do I care what you think about mine.
Do you look at other Minors at Rallies and other events and spend all your time ridiculing the owners for not having upgraded to 'your' specification?

A great many people have Minors because they like Minors.
A miniscule percentage of car owners ever modify their vehicles from the technical standard they were built to.
You are in a 'Rat Race of one.

You don't accept that anyone can have an opinion that differs to yours and seem to always want the last word, so I'll just leave you to carry on.
Basil the 1955 series II

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