ETHANOL CHANGES

[djk3816]

We have been reading about the proposals to increase Ethanol to 10% or more in our petrol and its negative effects on components. Does anyone have views or experience of the various products out there that claim to negate the effects? I am thinking of ;
1) Esso Synergy Super Unleaded fuel which although marked up as E10 is said to contain very low/no ethanol
2) Spitfire Fuel (a tablet said to last 5 years ?)
3) Additives from Briggs and Stratton, Sta Bil, Ethanolmate, etc
My car is not used a lot so I tend to keep the tank topped up and although adding additives is a nuisance I would rather do this and bear the cost of an additive than have failing components.

Any ideas, recommendations, views??

[Edward1949]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Millers-Octane ... 6265&psc=1

I've been using MillersVSPe Power Plus additive for the last year or so . Dosage is 1 ml per litre of petrol, so it adds about 5p cost to a litre of fuel. As well as claiming to protect fuel systems of classics against adverse Ethanol effects up to E10 it protects valve seats against unleaded fuel and claims to enhance Octane rating of fuel by up to 2 points. I think I noticed a slight improvement in pulling power and an increase in tickover speed, but it's hard to be scientific about it. Anyhow, even if the E10 protection is the only real benefit it's probably money well-spent for peace of mind.

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

The French have had it for years. They still run old cars.

[neilmorey]

I'd read about fuel stabilisers for petrol lawn mowers laid up over winter and thought it would benefit the Morris too. A bit difficult to know if it has any effect or not but the braided rubber hose from the pump was a bit soft and swollen before I started using it, will it slow deterioration of the replacement hose I don't know. I bought Ethomix from Frost as couldn't get anything locally when I looked.

https://www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-corrosi ... rotection/

[King Kenny]

I read these comments with interest. We have lived in France for nine years now. We run a Hyundai Kona that runs very well on E10.
I have used my 1969 Traveller almost daily since I bought her in 1979. I have been using 95 sans plomb all this time. I use her as often as I can, but like me, she is retired. I have wondered about the effect of E10 on an old motor so I plan on trying an experiment.
From the next time I fill up I will use E10 and see if anything untoward happens. Obviously I will let you know the results, if and when they occur.

[woodiesenfrance]

King Kenny, in France (for 29 years now) we use 98E5 when 95 isn't available, never E10 as there is a risk to your fuel system, you may have problems long-term, one fill is unlikely to do any harm.
We use two 1098 Minors as everyday cars. The fuel consumption using 98 is at least 40mpg, more on long runs.

[King Kenny]

Hi Mary (you helped me register my Minor here). Thank you for your concern. I understand that this fuel may have an adverse reaction to plastics and rubber. The only parts that may be affected are the fuel sender, fuel pump diaphragm, pump to carb hose and the carb float. Mine are so old the will need replacing at some point so the potential damage wont be a problem for me. All these parts are easy to obtain should they fail.

[philthehill]

I understand that E10 has the potential to damage alloy carb parts as well as the rubber pipes, seals and diaphragms etc.

[53lake]

We've had up to 10% ethanol in our gasoline for years now, in fact since 2007 by Federal mandate, although states have some additional flexibility in how much gets added. Classics like the Minor can certainly suffer problems from incompatibility of fuel systems with ethanol at this level.

When I first acquired a Morris Minor here in Texas, I changed the fuel pump to carb hose with a braided one purchased in the UK and six months later found it was squirting gasoline from tiny pin holes all along its length. The carb float chamber also had black sediment in it from deterioration of the hose lining. I swapped that for a US-made neoprene hose made for US gasoline. Next issue was that the car died after a mile or so from fuel starvation. I traced that to the small O-ring that sits at the connection of the small flexible hose from the carb chamber to the jet. It had swelled and blocked the fuel flow. I had changed the fuel pump for a new one so I don't know if the old diaphragm got damaged too, the new one performed OK.

With the restoration project I've been doing on my Morris, I'm switching to ethanol-free gas which you can buy at some (few and far between) stations. It's much more expensive than regular 10% ethanol gas, likely because demand is far lower, and of the cost of maintaining separate distribution systems, but for the miles I will be doing the difference is small. I'll use a dedicated container at the pump and fill up at home.

As an aside, flex-fuel vehicles with specially adapted fuel systems can burn 85% ethanol/15% gasoline (E85). Here, it ranges from 5c to 15c / gallon cheaper than E10. I have a 2009 flex-fuel pickup, so for fun I tried the stuff. The energy content of ethanol is far lower than gasoline per gallon. In fact, E85 has only 72% of the energy of E10, so needless to say you get 20-25% fewer mpg, and I proved that by experience. So, fine if the E85 is at least 20% cheaper, but it isn't. So buying the stuff makes no economic sense at all. Maybe from an environmental viewpoint, but that in itself is a hotly contested issue too, with ethanol subsidies fiercely defended by the corn lobbyists.

As regards stabilisers, I don't think they will do much against the ethanol effects on seals. They reduce gum formation in stored fuels, a product of deteriorated (mainly) olefinic material in the fuel. Ethanol will certainly accelerate the fuel ageing process, so it is useful to add a stabiliser to any fuel that is going to sit for a long period.

Just a few thoughts from over the pond as the UK contemplates E10....

[jagnut66]

Hi,
I have fitted an E10 resistant rubber fuel line from the pump to the carb and replaced the rubber diaphragm in the fuel pump with an E10 resistant one from the States.
However I didn't think about any 'O' rings in the carb set up itself, something I shall have to watch out for when Sally's running again.
I have asked Burlen Ltd., here in the UK, whether their refurb parts are E10 resistant and await an answer.....
There's always something, isn't there..........
Best wishes,
Mike.

[MorrisJohn]

That’s my understanding too Phil. Furthermore, I believe higher ethanol content results in higher moisture uptake.

I understand that E10 has the potential to damage alloy carb parts as well as the rubber pipes, seals and diaphragms etc.

[djk3816]

Since starting this post I am now giving Esso petrol a go. Maybe a few pence dearer but it saves messing around with additives. See extract below :
Quote:
Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.
Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area, Scotland and NW England). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.
There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.
Unquote

David