I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Discuss Electrical problems here.
Bubblemechanic
Minor Friendly
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:34 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby Bubblemechanic » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:57 am

Hi guy's now I am a bit of a numpty when it comes to Auto electrics and would like a lot of help to change the old style 2 fuse box to a more modern Blade fuse, I hope this is possible so it free's up some clutter wiring wise and also gives me a few extra for other accessories which fuse boards are best because wehave to have an ignition side and also a permanent live side. I have already had help to change from a dynamo to a Alternator so have stripped out the control box and just using that as an earth panel but there is still a couple of live wires connected as well. I hope you are able to help
Cheers Paul.

simmitc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:43 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby simmitc » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:33 am

The basic concept is simple, complicated only by (a) finding the correct/best fuse box to use and (b) identifying any previous deviations from the standard wiring that have been made over the decades since the car left the factory. Here are a few things to consider:

1) Take photos of everything before you start so that you can work out what used to go where.
2) During the work in progress, label loose wires and keep bare ends away from the body - always best to isolate the battery before working on electrics, but sometimes you need power for testing.
3) Modern terminals are crimp on. Buy the correct tool for crimping terminals, it is a worthwhile investment.
4) Depending on the layout of the new box, you may need to extend some wiring. Use the correct colour and rating, it makes later fault finding much easier!
5) To join wires when extending, you can use pre-insulated crimp "butt" connectors or similar solder ones. Alternatively, solder the joint and insulate with the correct size heat shrink sleeving.
6) Plan before you start.

You can get different styles of fuse box, for example a single common input with individual fused outputs or multiple fuses, each with its own input and output.

Make sure that you use the correct rated fuse for each circuit.

If you have not got one already, invest in a multimeter.

Start by removing your current fuses and use the multimeter to check which are the live (input) terminals - we know which should be, but it's that "what happened over the decades" factor to check.

Replace the fuses, then remove one wire at a time to see what no longer works. This allows you to identify which wire feeds which circuit.

Your basic requirement is to have some fuses which are live regardless of whether the ignition is on or off, such as courtesy light and headlights; and others like indicators, heater fan and wipers that have power only when the ignition is switch on.

Decide what circuits you want before you start and then look for the fuse box or poxes that match your needs.

geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby geoberni » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:36 am

I would question 'Why?'
There is little point in doing something for the sake of it, or just because you can.
OK, so you changed to an Alternator, presumable because you wanted more reliability, greater current availability, or was it just because other people had?
It's always possible to change your fuse box, but there are ways and means. You can change to modern blade fuses, or you can just add a more traditional ceramic/glass fuse box, there's plenty available, the internet is relatively awash with them.

You haven't 'stripped out the control box', as you said it's still used as a connection point.

If you go ahead, it needs planning, but the work involved doesn't necessarily justify the gain.
If you want to add some extra load to the system, there's nothing wrong with adding an 'accessory fuses' box just for the additional items.

When I got my Basil, a previous owner had added a DIY junction box that serves no real practical purpose.
The 4 green wires, instead of being attached to the 2 terminals at the bottom of the fuse box have been taken off to the terminals with the individual links. if they did it because they didn't like having 2 wires on each of the terminals, why then have 6 on the top terminal?
No logic, rhyme or reason as far as I'm concerned. :-?
Three additional wires had been added to the top fuse. :roll:
20171022_195837A.jpg
20171022_195837A.jpg (332.74 KiB) Viewed 529 times
I've added some electrical bits, and I've tidied this all up by adding some fuses inside the car. I've still removing the silly little junction bow with the links.
The 2 Red and 1 White on the top fuse have been moved inside fed by the sky blue and the clean looking brown on the far right has been added. I need to make some changes at a later date to stop colour confusion.... :lol:
20200617_162607.jpg
20200617_162607.jpg (1.03 MiB) Viewed 529 times
So basically my message is make sure you're making changes for valid reasons and plan what you want to put where.

Just an Edit to add, I see that simmitc had given a lot of detail as to the work involved if you do carry this forward. This damn site didn't inform me he had posted before I made my post. So now you have an idea of the amount of work involved.
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

Bubblemechanic
Minor Friendly
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:34 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby Bubblemechanic » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:55 pm

I would like to thank you all for your advice and I was also told that a blade fuse holder would not look right in the Engine Bay, I am trying to tidy up the clutter with the wiring and also do away with the Regulator box because all that is inside is an empty box with a couple of Bridges across some of the terminals I thought it would look OK after I put the alternator on the car, I changed the dynamo because I have Changed the Headlights to Halogen I bought the ones that had the sidelight as well because I have used the small sidelight holes in the wings to install flashing Indicators all round because Gloria still has working Trafficators which are working along side the Flashing indicators so there are 4 Extra wires there to power and work the 2 separate Flashing units I also would like to use LEDs to replace some of the bulbs because they are supposed to be low power consumption and brighter. So looking at both your comments and advice How would I go about tidying up the wiring and say I put another Lucas Style fuse Box in and could I separate the permanent Live Side to one box, and the Ignition to another, and would it look neat in the Engine Bay or could I take them both inside the car or is that not practical. I am trying to give me extra fuse space for a Radio, and a couple of Electrical ports for say phone Charger, sat Nav when needed, and a couple spare for future use.
I would welcome your thoughts on this also Am still confused as to what wires go where at moment I do have a multi meter, and also a set of ratchet crimping pliers somewhere in my garage.
Cheers Bubblemechanic

geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby geoberni » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:25 pm

Wow, I'm sorry but some Full Stops and the Enter key occasionally would make your post a lot easier to read and understand.

The harder it is to follow, the less likely people are going to want to help you.

You are where you are having already done the Alternator conversion.
Personally, when I brought my car 3 years ago, it had a Dynamo and the previous Owner had also fitted Halogen Headlights with integral sidelights.
I just swapped out the Halogen to LED headlights as the power consumption was a bit to close to Dynamo max output for my liking.

I would be wary of having another Fuse Box in the Engine bay as you'll need another hole to run all the wires into the inside.
Better to take a power cable inside the car and then have a fuse box.

You've totally lost me with the "there are 4 Extra wires there to power and work the 2 separate Flashing units" bit.

Some photos of what you have would be a great help.
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

simmitc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:43 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby simmitc » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:55 pm

What he said ^^^^^

Bubblemechanic
Minor Friendly
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:34 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby Bubblemechanic » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:54 pm

Thank you again and take on board what you said and looking at my message does look cluttered up with all the information and help I am looking for.
Because I wanted to keep Gloria's Trafficators working as well as having Flashing Indicators more for the younger generation who would probably not understand that Orange light sticking out of the side of the car was actually my intention to turn apart from sticking my arm out of the window.
I was advised that each side needed to be powered individually because of the problem of the trafficators going up and down when the flasher operated. I had to run a Power off the wiring from behind the drivers Glove Box trafficator wiring to a new Flasher unit one for each side.
I bought wire off the other side of the flasher units to new bulb holders for the front and rear Flashing units then earth them up and they worked great
That is why I said it looked cluttered up I will get some photos over the holiday
I also have a voltage regulator for the Temperature Gauge on the bulk head along with all that is there already?
Cheers and Thank you Bubblemechanic

silloyd
Minor Fan
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:37 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby silloyd » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:42 pm

FWIW, an option for you would be to remove the Control Box (because you are using an alternator) and install a Lucas 7FJ Fuse box. It provides a number of spade connectors, fits in the same space as the removed Control Box and looks period.
IMG_20210401_203115.jpg
IMG_20210401_203115.jpg (2.95 MiB) Viewed 339 times
Lucas 7FJ Fuse box.jpg
Lucas 7FJ Fuse box.jpg (112.82 KiB) Viewed 339 times
_____________________________________________________________________________________
My name is Xog and I am from Adderley Park. Greetings earth people...take me to your leaded.



Bubblemechanic
Minor Friendly
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:34 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby Bubblemechanic » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:02 pm

A Big Thank you al those members who have helped me with my electrical Conundrum and have taken all you comments and advice on board.
and thank you to Silloyd for his photos of a suitable fuse box which I think would do the trick and looks really neat and tidy it must have tok you a fair bit of time to re-wrap all those wires so neat
Cheers All Paul (Bubblemechanic).

Bubblemechanic
Minor Friendly
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:34 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby Bubblemechanic » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:09 pm

Hello Silloyd would it be possible to show me the inside of your Lucas original fuse box as well as the photos of the inside of your 7FJ box.
Thanks Paul.

silloyd
Minor Fan
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:37 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby silloyd » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:00 pm

Here you go...
IMG_20210404_204758.jpg
IMG_20210404_204758.jpg (2.8 MiB) Viewed 243 times
_____________________________________________________________________________________
My name is Xog and I am from Adderley Park. Greetings earth people...take me to your leaded.



Bubblemechanic
Minor Friendly
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:34 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby Bubblemechanic » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:03 pm

A really big thank for those photos of the inside of your fuse Boxes. Would it be possible to explain to me the wiring Configuration I understand that there is going to be an ignition fuse box and a permanent live fuse box.
I can vaguely make out the wires but if you could start to point me in the right direction and the procedure please I am going to take loads of pics so if anything happens then at least like you said I have a reference point
Would it be too much if I went for 2 X 7 FJ boxes or would it not work like that? and do away with the original lucas fuse box would they still look period
Car Electrics are confusing so am trying to get it right first time and give me ample more spare connecting points both on the live side and the Ignition side.
I know I keep coming back to the same thing but I do not want to connect the battery and start having smoking wiring or worse a fire.
Cheers Paul (Bubblemechanic)

geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby geoberni » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:05 am

Hello Paul

I wonder why someone who is a self confessed
bit of a numpty when it comes to Auto electrics
is so intent on undertaking significant electrical work requiring a good understanding of what's involved.


I'm still unsure exactly what you have done here...
I was advised that each side needed to be powered individually because of the problem of the trafficators going up and down when the flasher operated. I had to run a Power off the wiring from behind the drivers Glove Box trafficator wiring to a new Flasher unit one for each side.
I bought wire off the other side of the flasher units to new bulb holders for the front and rear Flashing units then earth them up and they worked great
What is the bit in bold? New Bulb holders for Flasher units?
It sounds as though your lack of electrical knowledge has created some Frankenstein's Child for the Indicators/Traficators.

You mentioned originally that your car was 1963 Morris Traveller .... viewtopic.php?f=6&t=72303&p=656249#p656249,.... but Trafficators were deleted in 1961 :-?

So which standard of indicators have you got?
Is it a DIY installation?
Is it the flashing brake lights (Aug 61 - Oct 63) using the DB10 Relay?
Perhaps a hybrid, where the DB10 Relay has been adapted to operate separate indicators?
Is it the 63-71 final version?

Do you know what wiring standard your car is?

I'd want to see pictures of what we're dealing with before offering any further advice. I'm wary of adding to the DIY activities you're undertaking on your wiring....
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

Bubblemechanic
Minor Friendly
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:34 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby Bubblemechanic » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:22 am

Hi and thank you for your concerns and I will try to explain what I have done and try not to confuse any further
When I bought the car in 2006 it was in a bit of a state and according to the person I bought it off it should have been on the road three weeks later as there was just a small hole under neath where the radiator overflow dripped onto the front cross member, unfortunately not the case there was patch upon patch so ended replacing every panel on the car right the way back to to the rear of the car.

Anyway the Trafficators were already there and they are SF80s and there was the large indicator / side light units on the vehicle.
The woodwork only had the one hole for the Stop / Tail light no rear indicators even the front indicators did not work.

So I sourced a pair of small hole wings then I used the side light holes for new indicator units and bought new headlights for Halogen bulbs with the side light incorporated and used the side light wiring for the new Side lights

I got in touch with Steve from ESM and they sent me the correct wiring diagram for re-wiring new Flashing indicators and keeping the Traficators working and he was kind enough to talk me through wiring up after I got all the correct colored cable with tracer colours.

I then got the wooden sides with the 2 Holes for stop /tail and the indicators so Now I have all the wiring in place for all 4 flashing indicators and also the SF80s work.

For this to work correctly you have to have separate flasher units an the wiring for the SF80s in the glove compartment you have to add the extra wires to the flasher units then the bulb holders and then you have your traficators and the flashing units on the car.

There is only one problem the green wire that powers the indicator stalk for the light on the end you have to disconnect that wire so the little bulb is inactive because every time you indicate all the flashers work like Hazard because that wire sends power to both sides of the indicator unit on the steering column.

I will try and take some pictures for you today and looking at your photos and comparing what I have apart from the wiring for my indicators and Temperature gauge they both look similar I need to give some of the wires a good clean to get the grime off.

I hope this information is ok all I am trying to do is get rid of the old control box which I thought would look authentic but it does not do anything except being an electrical and earth junction.

All I am after is a few more empty electrical points like you have done it looks really neat and tidy. Also while I am doing that I may move the 2 Flasher units inside then I might be able to hear the clicks
Cheers Paul.

Bubblemechanic
Minor Friendly
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:34 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby Bubblemechanic » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:50 am

To be fair to you As far as car Electrics go it is confusing and I am a 17th edition city and guilds qualified sparky but a numpty with car electrics but I do try and gather as much information from people like yourself that have been there and done it. It makes the end result a lot more satisfying when it all comes together and works.
Cheers Paul.

geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: I would like to change the Old style fuse box to modern blade fuse box

Postby geoberni » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:59 am

Bubblemechanic wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:50 am
To be fair to you As far as car Electrics go it is confusing and I am a 17th edition city and guilds qualified sparky but a numpty with car electrics but I do try and gather as much information from people like yourself that have been there and done it. It makes the end result a lot more satisfying when it all comes together and works.
Cheers Paul.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
My background is a full career of Royal Air Force aircraft electrics, so quite similar to cars in a lot of ways, especially the real basics having trained on wiring systems of a comparable age to Minors!

From the way you have described some aspects, such as having the small hole front sidelights, the car is pre October 63, BUT it doesn't explain why it has trafficators, since they were stopped in 61. Then there were the large post 63 front side/indicator lights?
Fitting trafficators to a car that never had them seems to be a lot of work for a past owner.
Your car just seems to be Pre-Aug 61 :-? :-? with a lot of strange modifications...
I'm still confused and curious as to how you have adapted the SF80s to flash when operated, since all they were designed to be was an Amber Arm deployed. I just fitted LED Flashing lamps when I restored Basils Trafficators.

Your problem
There is only one problem the green wire that powers the indicator stalk for the light on the end you have to disconnect that wire so the little bulb is inactive because every time you indicate all the flashers work like Hazard because that wire sends power to both sides of the indicator unit on the steering column.
is to me an indication (no pun intended) that the wiring diagram you obtained from ESM is incorrect. Lets face it, if the circuit was designed properly, it would work correctly, not have an annoying fault. Unless you have another problem somewhere. :-?

But I digress.
Personally, I wouldn't place another fuse box in the engine bay as that's more wiring to try and get through the bulkhead. I would just take a permanent and Ignition Live into the car and put a fuse box inside.
But it depends how much room you have to get additional wires through the bulkhead. I had no spare room and didn't want to drill another hole.
A photo of the Engine Bay/Bulkhead Area would help understand your layout.

Incidentally, if you had the 61-63 wiring, you'd have the DB10 relay as shown here.
If you look at this link to another topic on Hazard Lights, it shows how I wired my DB10 system to allow hazards and trafficators.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73112&hilit=trafficators#p663262
20170906_112623_LI.jpg
20170906_112623_LI.jpg (1.96 MiB) Viewed 14 times
Basil the 1955 series II

Image


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests