Car not starting with ignition on.

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d_harris
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Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:24 am

OK,

this is prob something really really simple, but I have been up all night and I can't work it out.

When I got in the car last night the lights simply did not work,not a jot, and the RAC man bodged it by connecting the two right most terminals on the control box together (A and AI) with a wire - point to note, the car has been converted to alternator, so the control box is just a glorified connection box.

About 5 miles into the journey the car came to a spluttering stop (at this point silly o'clock in the morning) and she went straight onto a recovery truck home...

So, 2.5hrs later, in daylight I have had a good poke about to find out whats going on. A very helpful chappy decided to help me by the side of the road and played with the points, so I have re-set them. Now, with the normal ignition controlled wiring to the coil there is no spark at all, by running a feed directly into the coil and bypassing the ignition she is running really well again.

Any prime suspects to be looking for? I need to look over the wiring diagram in some detail I think to fathom this one and any helpful suggestions welcome...

an interesting aside which may, or may not, be related. The fuel pump didn't tick until I plugged the direct wire into the coil


Matt
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby Matt » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:55 am

I did try to ring you at the weekend...

If you can't sort it I will have a quick look next weekend?
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d_harris
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:33 am

I have to hope that its fixed by then!!! :-?


Matt
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby Matt » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:14 am

I think A and A1 should be joined together as part of the alternator conversion?

Were the lights etc still at full brightness? Obviously check the connections on the distributor, coil and fusebox etc... what points gap have you set?
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d_harris
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:24 pm

So this is a rough wiring diagram adapted from the badfelafel one

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The pink represents the two RAC bodges that are in place at the mo, A to AI and Permanent Live Fuse to switched fuse to bypass ignition because the solenoid went funny... BUT new solenoid fitted and no different

car runs fine when "hotwired" (PM me for detais) and live feed from batt to coil

Points set to 15thou

I have no idea how the connections in the control box work


bmcecosse
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby bmcecosse » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:30 pm

What do you mean - solenoid went 'funny'....? Seems to me you have somehow lost the white wire feed from the Ign switch - could just be wires pulled off at the back of the switch. The fuel pump and the coil are BOTH fed from white wire - from the Ign switch. So hotwiring it has powered them both up. The A/A1 join is normal enough - but from there there should be a feed to the Ign switch - seems this is what has been lost ? It's a heavy brown wire from the solenoid - to the Ign switch....so here's the link to the solenoid 'going funny'.......carefully examine this area........ It's certainly nothing to do with the points gap........ Clued up AA man! Perhaps he 'pulled' a wire when doing the A/A1 join - and then 5 miles later - it came off. :roll:
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d_harris
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:56 pm

It appeared that the solenoid failed.

That brown wire is definately connected


bmcecosse
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby bmcecosse » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:11 pm

I strongly suspect wire off at the Ign switch - solenoids don't fail........
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d_harris
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:45 am

Wires all in situ at the ignition switch and very well crimped.


Matt
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby Matt » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:56 am

I would start now by disconnecting the RAC Bodge...

Using your multimeter, check if you have 12V on the wire feeding the coil, if not try running a new wire between the ignition controlled side of the fusebox direct to the coil.

Does everything else on the ignition controlled circuit work correctly?
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bmcecosse
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby bmcecosse » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:21 am

It does seem like an Ignition switch problem - if no power there, then obviously there will be no coil and no fuel pump, and no solenoid! 'It's NEVER the solenoid'.... :)
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Matt
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby Matt » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:37 am

:lol:
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Biggles1957
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby Biggles1957 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:24 pm

My solenoid went decidedly queer! Don't know whether it was the contacts that just died of old age or the coil that just didn't pull the armature in properly but I had very strange intermittent starting problems for a while. I didn't think it could be the solenoid and methodically worked through the usual culprits like earth connections and so on but eventually localised the problem to the old solenoid. A replacement solved it straight away and has been fine since :D

bmcecosse
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby bmcecosse » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:10 pm

:roll:
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d_harris
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:02 am

Well, the ignition is now turning on and off on the key, and the cars starting. BUT nothing electrical on the ignition side is working, no lights, fuel guage etc

I'm tempted to try and re-wire the whole damned car, but knowing my uck then I'll stuff something up chronically


bmcecosse
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby bmcecosse » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:08 am

What did you do to get the Ign switch working?? Hang on - 'lights' are not Ignition controlled...... So -is nothing at all working - except the Ignition and presumably the fuel pump? Back to the A /A1 wire join - these two MUST be connected.. These were originally joined by a sensing coil on the regulator - but if that has broken then they must be joined together elsewhere.
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d_harris
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:31 pm

bmcecosse wrote:What did you do to get the Ign switch working??
Changed the Solenoid.


d_harris
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:09 pm

Fixed.

I'm not entirely sure what happened, but Matt and his Friend Emma came and looked over the car and 1.5hrs later she seems to be OK.

From what I understand it was mainly dodgy & corroded connections and we had some fun when we managed to short everything out by earthing the fag lighter (which is now disconnected)


bmcecosse
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby bmcecosse » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:56 pm

Changing the solenoid would not in any way affect the Ign switch operation........... There's more going on here than you are telling...... I don't believe there is anything wrong with the old solenoid - they are ULTRA reliable.....even more so than coils.... :roll: :lol:
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d_harris
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Re: Car not starting with ignition on.

Postby d_harris » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:40 pm

Seriously, when I changed the Solenoid it would start on the key.



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