6v to 12v conversion and Alternator conversion question

[Hunsta]

OK, This is a two part question
And I know you wouldnt normally see this first question in here, but bear with me.
I have a 1948 Morris 8 E series that Im putting a 948cc Morris Minor motor in to replace the 918cc flat head sidevalve.
So in doing this Im obviously changing to 12v. Now apart from wiring to the extremities ( switches and bulbs and the like), what major electrical components do I require?
I assume a 12v regulator and 12v coil. But apart from this what other bits do I need?

Now for the second question.
I want fit an alternator conversion kit to the new 948. Now on one parts site (Bull Motif spares) they list an alternator conversion kit. http://www.morrisminorspares.net/shop_item.php?ID=2545 However it suggests in the listing that I should want to purchase a "Negative earth" sticker. Now please excuse me , but Im somewhat electrically backwards, but does this mean that using the conversion kit I have to wire the car to negative earth as opposed to positive earth.
Sorry if the questions are a bit stupid.
Cheers
Craig

[bmcecosse]

If you fit an alternator - you don't need a 12 volt Regulator. And yes - the car needs to be converted to -ve earth if running an alternator. You WILL need a 12 volt starter - and yes a 12 volt coil. Much simpler to stick with a dynamo, your existing wiring can still be used - and then all you need is a 12 volt dynamo, and a 12 volt regulator to go with it.

[simmitc]

You'd still need a 12v starter too! The real advantage of an alternator is more power to run a heavy electrical load, particularly at low engine revs. To an extent, it will depend on what else you plan to do to the car. I see no reason why the 948 should not run a 6v - Renault used to use 6v on their 4 model.

[bmcecosse]

6 volt starter may be difficult to find... I would certainly go to 12 volts - but surely a dynamo will do the job? Hardly likely you will be adding a barrage of extra lights !

[Hunsta]

OK thanks for that lads. I guess I was listening to too much hype from TV car shows about installing an alternator kit.
I'll just stick with a dynamo. Guess that will save me a few bucks.
As for the 6v v's 12v starter. Im assuming you mean the starter solenoid and not the starter motor. As I would assume the starter motor for the 948 would be 12v anyway. And for the record ,you can still get 6v starter solenoids for the Morris 8.(Sorry if thats not what you meant. I did say I was electrically backward)
So just recapping, keeping the dynamo I will need a 12v reg, 12v coil and a 12v starter?
Cheers
Craig

[simmitc]

Yes, the starter for a 948 will be 12v. My observation about keeping the 6v was simply that you could keep everything on the car at the standard 6v instead of changing all components - the old dynamo might fit the 948; but you would need a 6v starter. If you go for a 12v conversions then you will need the starter motor, coil and dynamo (all of which may come with the 948 anyway), the control box, the solenoid, and all bulbs / motors / relays on the rest of the car. I'm not familiar with the car, but if you have an gauges, then they would need converting too.

[Hunsta]

Yes. I have all the 12v starter motor and dynamo. I actually have 2 of each. As for the gauges,, the fuel gauge is the only electrically controlled guage on the dash.
Thanks once again guys. Cleared a bit up for me.
Craig

[bmcecosse]

Indeed - that fuel gauge will be a problem - but I suspect Maplins will be able to sell you a 12 volt to 6 volt converter to supply that. And yes - if the car has a 'solenoid' it will need to be 12 volt. I can't now remember if my old Morris 8Es had pull cable - or solenoid start. If pull cable - that will be fine for the 12 volt starter.

[meh]

And indicators

[bmcecosse]

Oh - yes! Well spotted... And the horn will be LOUD!

[zabond]

and EVERY light globe & fuel pump if elec, windscreen wiper motor, radio, heater if fitted

[Hunsta]

and EVERY light globe & fuel pump if elec, windscreen wiper motor, radio, heater if fitted

LOL he said "radio"

[simmitc]

He was obviously confused, but you will need to check that the spring in the wind up gramophone is properly balanced, and change the needle from the standard 6v to at least a 10.8w, or preferably a 12v.

[bmcecosse]

It will probably be a LOT easier to keep the car at 6 volts - and if necessary add in a second 6 volt battery to power a 12 volt starter. The second battery can be charged with a relay system closing only when the charging system voltage rises - such units are sold for charging caravan batteries on the move. I did a similar thing many years ago in a Landy when I used a second 12 volt battery to feed 24 volts to the starter to MAKE SURE it would always start in winter. It worked well.

[chesney]

We had a '41 Diamond T 969A that had a similar setup as BMC describes. The electrics were all 6 volt, save the starter that used another 6 volt battery to give a 12V start as BMC describes. Not 100% familiar how the recharging system was wired in fairness, but it worked well. Well, well enough (we did have to swap the batteries round on occasion!).

[ViKARLL]

I have reached the same juncture as Hunsta.

My 1948 Morris Eight Series E has 6V right throughout. But 6V batteries are no longer manufactured in my country and 6V accessories too are very rare. On many occasions in the past I was compelled to convert it to 12V but withheld. Main reason was that it is not authentic. Second was that, all the parts such as the SU petrol pump, semaphore trafficators, clock, bulbs and all other accessories mentioned in earlier posts had to be changed.
It looks like, the slightest discharge of the battery (compared to 12V) makes it impossible to self-start. I have changed the battery, completely overhauled the starter motor but the improvement is marginal. It is a 6V 90 Ah.

Is this typical to 6V systems?

Cheers,

ViKARLL[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

No - my old 8E would start very easily. Your battery is probably on it's last legs.... Surely you can find a 6 volt battery?? MGBs for example have 2 X 6 volt batteries.. Keep looking!!

[ViKARLL]

Thank you bmcecosse for your reply.

I am glad that you advocate sticking to the 6V battery, in your posts. Unfortunately only two brands, EXIDE and LUCAS manufacture batteries in my country and all the rest are imported 12V SLA batteries. The manufacturers officially announced discontinuation of 6V one year ago. In fact, most MGBs, Peugeot 203s, Benz 170s etc., here are converted to 12V.

Besides, my battery is not that old (mfd. in 2014 June and put to use this July).

If your car fails to start for some other reason, roughly how may times can you apply the starter motor? Mine is only thrice of about 3 Sec. spans. Four times max, if the battery is connected soon after external charging. Is this usual ?

[bmcecosse]

No - it should go on for ages (although the engine should start pretty much 'right away').Otherwise all the usual suspects - bad earth connections... and is the battery being fully charged? Perhaps the starter would benefit from an overhaul.