Just bought car, switched headlights, car cut out -Not Fixed

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PaddyD
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Just bought car, switched headlights, car cut out -Not Fixed

Post by PaddyD »

We've just bought a minor and when we flicked the headlight switch the car cut out and is now dead, no electrics or starting other than the interior light.
Any ideas?
Last edited by PaddyD on Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ASL642
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by ASL642 »

Was the car delivered to you or did you drive it home? What state is the battery in? Check this before removing anything else. It may be an old battery.

Lou Rocke
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PaddyD
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by PaddyD »

This car is still on the sellers drive so no issue with the sale. Battery checked and has a voltage. Fuses checked and seemingly fine.
Car is completely dead other than horn and interior light. No ignition lights, not starting, dead?

It was idling, headlights switched and boom, dead.
charlie_morris_minor
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by charlie_morris_minor »

could be an earth fault, when you check the battery i would clean up the terminals..
PaddyD
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by PaddyD »

Loosened and rechecked the earth, still nothing.
mogbob
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by mogbob »

Hi Paddy ( ? )
Could you clarify Model type and year of manufacture please ,so we are all talking about the same thing.
By " interior light " do your mean the one that lights up when the doors are opened or the " ignition warning light " ?
Does the wiring look original or have additions been added ?

Ideas....Has the in line fuse ( 10 amp ) from the lighting switch blown ? With the battery disconnected
check out the connections A and A! on the Control Box, clean metal and tight contacts.

Check out the connections on the ignition switch.
There are two NU wires ( Brown / Blue colour) from the A1 Control box connection going to 1.direct to the lighting switch and the other 2.direct to the ignition switch ( terminal 3 )
The two W wires ( white ) from the Ignition switch Terminal 2 are connected to 1. Ignition fed electrical items ( e.g Heater, fuel gauge , indicators ) and 2 the ignition warning light.
The interior light is on a separate fuse , fed from a blue wire U ( in ) and purple wire P ( out ).It also feeds the Horn.
The blue feed starts at the Control box Terminal A.

If it's all been left un molested for 40 odd years then a lot of the connections will need a good clean up.Look for any damaged wires along the way.After the clean up get out your multi meter and check fuses and "power " is where it should be , when the ignition is on.
Good luck with it , Bob
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by PaddyD »

mogbob wrote:Hi Paddy ( ? )
Could you clarify Model type and year of manufacture please ,so we are all talking about the same thing.
By " interior light " do your mean the one that lights up when the doors are opened or the " ignition warning light " ?
Does the wiring look original or have additions been added ?

Ideas....Has the in line fuse ( 10 amp ) from the lighting switch blown ? With the battery disconnected
check out the connections A and A! on the Control Box, clean metal and tight contacts.

Check out the connections on the ignition switch.
There are two NU wires ( Brown / Blue colour) from the A1 Control box connection going to 1.direct to the lighting switch and the other 2.direct to the ignition switch ( terminal 3 )
The two W wires ( white ) from the Ignition switch Terminal 2 are connected to 1. Ignition fed electrical items ( e.g Heater, fuel gauge , indicators ) and 2 the ignition warning light.
The interior light is on a separate fuse , fed from a blue wire U ( in ) and purple wire P ( out ).It also feeds the Horn.
The blue feed starts at the Control box Terminal A.

If it's all been left un molested for 40 odd years then a lot of the connections will need a good clean up.Look for any damaged wires along the way.After the clean up get out your multi meter and check fuses and "power " is where it should be , when the ignition is on.
Good luck with it , Bob
Thank you Bob, very helpful. It's a 1969 saloon and by interior light yes the one that turns on with the door open. So from your post it could be wiring to the control box related as the headlight switch and ignition switch are connected?

The car has been running and we drove it yesterday, MOT'd in September but no headlights used as we had daylight.
I'm going back tomorrow to help the seller and see if we can sort it. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by biomed32uk »

I can't steer you in the right direction other than what others have said, check all the connections, clean bright and tight.

It doesn't take much to really upset things on a car where there is only 12 volts.

It may look complicated looking at the wiring loom but it really isn't, Minor electrics are about as simple as they get, sure you'll have it sorted out.
biomed32uk
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by biomed32uk »

One thing I can usefully add is be very careful when diagnosing using a multimeter, you can get mislead.

Without going into great technical detail the voltage dropped across a resistance increases with the current. (From Ohms law)

The resistance is your possible bad connection, a multimeter takes next to no current so no volts are dropped. So you have a high resistance connection, put your multimeter on it and it reads 12 volts, so you think all fine.

Try drawing some current through it however and the volts will collapse, and hence whatever you are trying to power does not work.

Can be very misleading and confusing if you dont understand whats happening.
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by bmcecosse »

It's certainly nothing to do with 'fuses' - since neither headlights or Ignition circuits are fused in any way.. Start by removing battery connections and cleaning - could well be a failed battery if a post is loose. Try another battery. Could maybe be the A / A1 connections mentioned above -although I think (without looking at the wiring diagram) that would also affect the light and horn. It may be the connection on the back of the control box bewteen A and A1 has gone 'high resistance' (as mentioned above) although I think if it allows the horn to work - it would also allow the Ignition lights to come on - at least until you try the starter..... I suppose it's possible someone has been 'rewiring' the car and has had the bright idea of putting the lights and Ignition through a fuse.... And of course when the lights are turned on along with other loads - pop goes the fuse. Don't get too involved - let the seller sort it all out - or give the money back... Frankly I would tell the seller to let you know when the car is fit and ready for collection.
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PaddyD
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by PaddyD »

Thank you for your replies, I'll have a good read up tonight and try to get up to speed quickly. I've done a fair bit of work on my VW so not adverse to having a go.
As for giving the seller a hand, I don't mind as it gives me a chance to get to know these engines, if we can't sort it then I can walk away but I'd like to get it fixed as my girlfriend and I like this car.
Hopefully it's something or nothing and I can drive it home tomorrow.

Again, thank you for the replies and tips.
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by beero »

Mine was like this when I first re-commissioned it after 20 odd years. I took the control box off and on the back was a metal strap that had burned out. Worth a look.

PaddyD
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by PaddyD »

Going to head down shortly but I found a thread from 2013 with the exact same problem we had last night, so I have a feeling this will do it:
bmcecosse wrote:Yes - join A and A1 - just take the cable out of A1 terminal - and put it in A alongside the brown wire. The connection inside the reg box may have failed. That IS what's wrong!
bmcecosse
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by bmcecosse »

If it was that - the horn and light would not be working.....but check it anyway.
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PaddyD
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Re: Just bought car - turned headlights on and car cut out

Post by PaddyD »

Fixed it. Two minute job. Replaced the control box and bob's your uncle it starts and all the electrics are back.
Found the culprit:

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And she's home.

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Thank you all.
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Re: Just bought car, switched headlights and car cut out - Fixed

Post by Blades »

Well done Paddy, she looks a nice car

It's not uncommon for a Minor to throw a spanner in the works when you buy one, I had a problem with the drivers door lock just after I got mine

Post up some more pictures when you get a chance

Nick
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Re: Just bought car, switched headlights and car cut out - Fixed

Post by The vast minority »

Sweet looking vehicle
Nice result there.

Al
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Re: Just bought car, switched headlights and car cut out - Fixed

Post by mogbob »

Paddy
Great news / result !!
I sincerely hope that it is a good omen and that everything on your car is " a two minute job ".

I can hear echoes from other forum members along the lines of... you must be joking / some chance and no chance/in your dreams , etc. However as it has been mentioned before working on a Minor is usually straight forward and spares are readily
available and not too expensive compared to other marques. The Forum is a good practical place for advice on all things
major or minor ( Minor ).There are some very knowledgeable guys and gals only too willing to help.
Some people seeking help forget their manners , so your "Thank you all " to the Forum is appreciated !

The car looks great.Happy and safe motoring to you and your girlfriend.
Bob
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Re: Just bought car, switched headlights and car cut out - Fixed

Post by PaddyD »

Cheers Nick, Al and Bob. Hopefully everything remains a two minute job, though experience with my VW suggests that is almost never the case. Fortunately in this instance it was. The car is pretty sorted as is at the minute but I'll be sticking around as I may get another for me, but a bit of a project rather than a 'sorted' one to stretch my skills.

Once again, thanks for your help, wouldn't have solved it without the aid of the forum members.
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Re: Just bought car, switched headlights and car cut out - Fixed

Post by bmcecosse »

Well done - looks like that link had been bodged up in the past - I wonder why...?
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