electronic ignition minefield !!

Discuss Electrical problems here.

Moderator: Moderators

roley
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:23 pm
MMOC Member: No

electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby roley » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:53 pm

I want to convert my minor saloon to electronic ignition but have to admit to being baffled by all the kits available, any advise ?

Trickydicky
Minor Legend
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:53 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby Trickydicky » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:11 pm

Many people have had good success with the Accuspark Lucas 45d type complete distributor with electronic ignition fitted, in many cases the distributors are worn so replacing it as a complete item can solve ignition related running problems.
If you do go down the complete dizzy route be sure to follow the instructions and you wont go far wrong.
Here is a video showing how to fit the electronic ignition in a mgb but the principle is the same in a moggy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtgfitJpQ1s
Richard

Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.

les
Minor Maniac
Posts: 7234
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:00 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby les » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:20 pm

You're not alone fitting this mod but I've yet to see the advantage in making a simple reliable car, more complicated! :D I think most people who have this modification carry the original setup for when alteration goes wrong! That speaks volumes to me, :D


roley
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:23 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby roley » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:29 pm

thanks for advice,another question is: do I need to fit a new coil ?

Trickydicky
Minor Legend
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:53 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby Trickydicky » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:04 pm

No you don't need to change the coil but you do need the car to be negative Earth, though you can buy positive Earth kits but they are more expensive.
Richard

Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.

IslipMinor
Minor Legend
Posts: 2066
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 9:10 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby IslipMinor » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:59 am

I fitted the Aldon Ignitor kit to our Minor in 1998 and have never needed to look at it, until one of the wires inside the distributor cap fretted and broke after 18 years and 50,000+ miles - not sure if that is reasonable or not?

The failure gave me warning as a high-speed misfire on the way down to the Portsmouth ferry and the start of the 2015 Euroclassic in France. I did carry a set of points with me, so after a couple of days swapped the Ignitor unit out for the points.

Later in the year I replaced the whole distributor with a distributorless solid state 3D NODIZ fully mapped ignition system, which is excellent, but I now carry a complete pre-timed distributor, coil and connections with me, just-in-case!
Richard



SteveClem
Minor Legend
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:37 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby SteveClem » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:21 pm

Accuspark system has been great on both of my minors and on my Austin A30. So I fitted it onto the Beetle. Complete disaster! After 3 new sets I'm back to original points etc. Bug man says they've been problematic lately.

Smithy1961
Minor Fan
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:02 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby Smithy1961 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:39 pm

The worst of all cars to retro fit electronic ign to is a v/w beetle ..
One clyd is made to be retarded . This is because of the oil cooler placement above that clyd.

oliver90owner
Minor Addict
Posts: 758
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby oliver90owner » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 am

Think here repairability.

Electronic modules are not the cheapest but are likely better for economy and 'fit and forget' situations.

Those who carry a spare Kettering system, for the unlikely event of module failure, are 'belts and braces' types. Carrying a spare electronic module would be more expensive, but likely just as effective.

Part of the attraction of these old cars is the ease of repair. Electronics don't come under that category! I built my first electronic ignition system, so could have carried a few transistors, capacitors, etc as spares. I did not. It did not fail.

Modern cars rarely fail in this department, but unfortunately Moggie Owners find that some electronic systems have a higher failure rate than hoped for. Unfortunately, there are not many service points for our old cars these days, so we have to carry our own spares or rely on specialists for back up.

So your choice is really down to cost and research on absolute reliability. Even IslipMinor carries a spare system, although he has had only one failure in how many years? Probably would not if he did not take his car abroad regularly? A set of contact points does nof taje up much space, but one does need to know how to fit them in an emergency!

RAB

SteveClem
Minor Legend
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:37 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby SteveClem » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:48 pm

Smithy1961 wrote:The worst of all cars to retro fit electronic ign to is a v/w beetle ..
One clyd is made to be retarded . This is because of the oil cooler placement above that clyd.
Thanks for that info. None of the bug people have mentioned that. :-?
Back to research. Runs like a dream now it's back on points

dp
Minor Addict
Posts: 960
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:26 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby dp » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:07 pm

There's a Velleman kit that uses the existing points but takes the current through the electronics so that the points don't wear (very much). It cost's a tenner plus a suitable box for it to live in.

http://www.velleman.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p199.html

So you still time & gap your points up as before but they shouldn't wear out. The capacitor (condensor) is bypassed. So if the unit failed you could just re-connect the capacitor, disconnect the unit and you're back to points. The rest of the distributor can still wear, Ie the rotor arm and cap as they do the same job as before and aren't replaced.

ampwhu
Minor Fan
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:51 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby ampwhu » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:56 pm

have ran with accuspark electronic ignition since 2011. drove all the way tom Scotland and back and 1,000's of miles since. when servicing time comes around, all that's required is a change of oil and filter and a clean and check the gap of the spark plugs. no air filter as I have k&n fitted. so reliable and have never touched the dizzy since it has been installed.

don't believe in carry a spare dizzy with points etc. if your going down that route, carry a spare gearbox in your boot. you never know.....

IslipMinor
Minor Legend
Posts: 2066
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 9:10 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby IslipMinor » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:48 pm

don't believe in carry a spare dizzy with points
Scenario: In the middle of France, taking part in a classic car run, and the electronic module fails after ~16 years and 50,000+ miles, more than 50% in continental Europe and Scandinavia, of uninterrupted service.

Options (bear in mind its a Saturday afternoon):

Order a new module on Monday, in 2 day's time, and wait for it to arrive - the classic car run is now 100's of miles away, and actually finished

Find the nearest Lucas agent, and pop in to collect a set of points - % likelihood?

Fit the spare set of points kept handily in the boot - 15 minutes later on our way to enjoy the rest of the run with everyone else

Same applies to the full electronic set up we now have - bear in mind it is very unlikely to have gone through the extensive OEM testing that 'modern' cars have.

Yes, we do go out the UK quite a bit, but the space taken up is minuscule and peace of mind is very reassuring!
Richard



ampwhu
Minor Fan
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:51 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby ampwhu » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:46 pm

why not tow a trailer with a spare car on it. if's but's and maybe's. what happens if your car gets written off? you'd still miss the race.

if you don't trust modern technology than refit your points etc. I'd never return to that. who wants to be fiddling around in the rain with a set of feeler gauges these days.

IslipMinor
Minor Legend
Posts: 2066
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 9:10 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby IslipMinor » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:10 pm

don't trust modern technology
???

Why would I have fitted the Aldon Ignitor distributor module nearly 20 years ago, and the current solid state Nodiz 3D mapped ignition system last year, if I did not? But then I don't have blind faith either.

Presumably you don't carry a spare wheel either? Takes up much more room than a distributor.

I can't remember in detail all the way back to when my mother first bought the Minor 50+ years ago, and whether we had any punctures (I think not), but certainly since the restoration in 1998, I have had one puncture in 50,000+ miles since then, and one electronic ignition module failure in the same period. Very pleased that we carried the necessary spares and tools on both occasions!
Richard



JOWETTJAVELIN
Minor Legend
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:20 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby JOWETTJAVELIN » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:38 pm

I agree with Richard. It's sensible to pack a few essential spares. A complete distributor (plus more besides) is out of sight in the otherwise cavernous wasted space of the under-boot. The other option is a ruined holiday.
Image

LVY165
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:11 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby LVY165 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:24 pm

http://www.accuspark.co.uk/fitting_guide.html

this helped me and made easy, understandable reading - includes diagrams!

liammonty
Minor Addict
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:32 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: electronic ignition minefield !!

Postby liammonty » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:15 pm

SteveClem wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:48 pm
Smithy1961 wrote:The worst of all cars to retro fit electronic ign to is a v/w beetle ..
One clyd is made to be retarded . This is because of the oil cooler placement above that clyd.
Thanks for that info. None of the bug people have mentioned that. :-?
Back to research. Runs like a dream now it's back on points
A little off topic as this is regarding VW Type 1 engines, but this is more of an issue on the pre ‘doghouse’ oil cooler engines - on them, the cooling air for cylinder no. 3 is pre-heated by the oil cooler, so cylinder no. 3 (front left) runs hotter. On later engines with the doghouse cooler, the cooler gets its own cooling air, as does cylinder number 3, so all should run around the same temperature meaning you shouldn’t have a problem 😀


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests