Flashing indicators and trafficators

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Lewlo93
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Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby Lewlo93 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:40 am

Hi everyone! My Morris minor has retro fitted flashing indicators, it used to have trafficators. I was just wondering if there is a way of using both? And if anyone has an idea as to how to wire it up? Thanks everyone!

KeithL
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby KeithL » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:03 pm

Our Traveller has both working. Unfortunately it was all sorted before we got the car. I know from the previous owner that two relays from a Ford Mondeo were involved. I'm sure someone more technical will be along soon to fill in the details.


myoldjalopy
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby myoldjalopy » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:46 pm

If it were me, I would keep them on seperate switches as you may not always want the trafficators to come out every time you sgnal.
For my car I got a switch like this one: http://www.morrisminorspares.com/electr ... as-p829883 and mounted it on a bracket fitted under the dashboard (much better than drilling holes in the dash itself to fit it). You might find one cheaper at an autojumble or through club spares.
Assuming the trafficators and their wires are still in place, take a feed to the switch from A4 on the control box (I think that's right, but best check a wiring diagramme for cars with trafficators).

ManyMinors
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby ManyMinors » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:22 pm

IF you want to use both together from the same switch, it is very simple. You take a second feed from the Right and Left side of the indicator switch so that one of the live feeds goes direct to the trafficator and the second goes via a flasher unit to the flashing indicator light. You do indeed need two flasher units - just ordinary Morris 1000 ones will do - because you have to have one for each side. If you fit them up behind the dashboard somewhere, you will also have a built-in audible warning :)

IslipMinor
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby IslipMinor » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:21 pm

A diagram showing the use of the trafficators and 2 standard Minor flasher relays for the flashing indicators is shown below:
Combined Trafficators and Flashing Indicators.jpg
Combined Trafficators and Flashing Indicators.jpg (307.2 KiB) Viewed 625 times
The problem with this 'simple' circuit is that the trafficators are always in use. Assuming that you want to use the 'flashers' as the default, and you want to be able to switch the trafficators on when required, it gets a bit more complicated and needs a single way/single pole switch to turn the trafficators on/off and 2 x 4-pin relays as shown in the second diagram below:
Combined Trafficators and Flashing Indicators incl relays.jpg
Combined Trafficators and Flashing Indicators incl relays.jpg (359.63 KiB) Viewed 625 times
Richard



Biggles1957
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby Biggles1957 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:50 pm

Have you considered replacing the glow worms that live in the trafficators with self flashing LED's? I don't think you'd need to wire in an additional flasher unit then...

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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby IslipMinor » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:03 pm

No, you would not need a separate flasher unit, or two, BUT they are not very visible at best, and virtually invisible down low on the near-side on a 2-door!

Modern traffic has virtually no knowledge of trafficators, and is not expecting a little arm to stick out from the side of the car to indicate the driver's intention to turn left or right directly in front of them! They are from a very different era of traffic speed and density.
Richard



Biggles1957
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby Biggles1957 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:38 pm

Exactly the point Richard - so the really bright flashing LED's at least make them a bit more visible - especially because people are used to noticing flashing lights these days. I agree though that a lot of drivers now wouldn't notice trafficators - and perhaps not even work out what they were indicating (no pun intended!) plus they're rather vulnerable, especially low down as you say, so purely for safety reasons in modern traffic I would want to make myself as visible as possible. One of the things I found when I had my traveller was that the rear lights are so low down that the idiot bumper huggers simply can't see them! So as it was my every day car I did fit some discrete high level LED brake lights in the bottom of the rear windows.

As far as trafficators go, I have fitted the flashing LED's to both my 1932 Morris Minor and 1934 Morris Oxford Sixteen Six - and they also have the combination LED orange indicator lamps fitted in the sidelight positions. So from the outside everything looks very original, but other drivers are fully aware (if they're not on their stupid mobile phones, or putting their make-up on, or any other amount of irrelevant distractions) of my intentions. Still have to drive defensively though in our proper cars.

Hastings
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby Hastings » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:48 pm

My ‘56 SII has both traficators & flashing indicators running off the same dash mounted (white) switch.

A couple of questions arise:

Shouldn’t the switch be on the right hand side of the wheel (and brown)? There are a couple of little holes either side of a bigger hole on the far right of the dash that look like a switch used to be there...

Is it possible to fit a column mounted indicator stalk that would operate just the flashers, leaving the switch to operate the traficators if ever required?

myoldjalopy
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby myoldjalopy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:34 pm

Assuming yours is a 2-door, or convertible, then yes, the normal switch was a brown bakelite switch with a red warning lamp fitted to the right of the steering wheel. Why someone removed it and stuck a white switch elsewhere I have no idea - but then again, these cars have frequently been meddled with over the years by previous owners.
Not sure if a column mounted indicator stalk can be easily fitted to the SII - someone else here will surely know. Alternatively, you could get the correct switch and re-fit it in the correct place to work the trafficators, and leave the existing switch for the flashing indicators.

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geoberni
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby geoberni » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:35 pm

Lewlo93 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:40 am
Hi everyone! My Morris minor has retro fitted flashing indicators, it used to have trafficators. I was just wondering if there is a way of using both? And if anyone has an idea as to how to wire it up? Thanks everyone!
Well, Lewlo93 hasn't been back since making this request, so who knows if they're even looking to see what answers they're getting...
:cry:

So Lewlo93,
Which type of Indicators do you have, i.e. which wiring harness?
Because that will dictate how they're to be wired up. People here are happily posting up wiring diagrams which may not relate to your car.

My '55 Series II was built with trafficators but during a past rebuild, was fitted with a latter harness for a '56-'63 car (where the brake light flashed) but also given separate indicators, the typical flat amber lens at the front & rear. So the brake light connection was taken from the pressure switch direct to the brake lights, not via the Flasher Relay.
DSCF8101 (2).JPG
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I found the amber light, aimed up at the sky, is not the most useful of indicators.

I'm currently trailing a red lens on the rear instead of the amber and the lamp in parallel with the '56 era brake/flasher wiring having been restored. Thus extra brake lights in addition to the indicators.

The Trafficators that were still in the car, but with no wiring (due to the latter harness) have also been reinstated, but with a switch to disable them when required, e.g. when going fast on the open road and the wind speed might damage them. Flashing LED lamps have been fitted to the Trafficators.

To complete the whole package, I've also fitted a 4-way hazard flasher to the indicators. :D
20190730_141421.jpg
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Basil the 1955 series II

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geoberni
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:35 am

Hastings wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:48 pm
My ‘56 SII has both traficators & flashing indicators running off the same dash mounted (white) switch.

A couple of questions arise:

Shouldn’t the switch be on the right hand side of the wheel (and brown)? There are a couple of little holes either side of a bigger hole on the far right of the dash that look like a switch used to be there...
myoldjalopy wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:34 pm
Assuming yours is a 2-door, or convertible, then yes, the normal switch was a brown bakelite switch with a red warning lamp fitted to the right of the steering wheel. Why someone removed it and stuck a white switch elsewhere I have no idea - but then again, these cars have frequently been meddled with over the years by previous owners.
Forgive my general ignorance of the multitude of layouts that might have been original, but I thought only the Convertible/'Tourer' had the little reinforcing panel by the knees, which allowed the indicator switch to be mounted on the Right of the Steering Wheel (on a RH Drive).

Basil, as a '55 2 door has a white switch, mounted to the Right of the Speedo; I don't see where one could have been mounted to the right of the steering wheel, apart from the early cars that had the timer switch under the dash.

Of course, Basil's white switch could date from whenever his indicators were originally fitted :-?
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My limited knowledge is only a couple of years of looking at photos or seeing other Moggies at events, so I'm more than happy to increase that knowledge. :D
Basil the 1955 series II

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Hastings
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby Hastings » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:23 pm

This is the current layout on mine and where it may have been in the past..?:
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ManyMinors
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby ManyMinors » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:33 pm

On a Series 11 saloon, the trafficator switch should be black (or dark brown?) and mounted on a bracket under the dashboard to the right of the steering wheel. It was only the 4 door models which were equipped with the "egg timer" type of switch. The other models had to make do with the on/off switch of the type pictured but black (or brown) rather than white as far as I remember.

myoldjalopy
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby myoldjalopy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:40 pm

Hello 'geobernie'. Having owned a totally original SII 2-door in the 1980's I can confirm that it had a brown bakelite switch on a bracket just to the right of the steering wheel and under the dash - just as as pointed out by 'ManyMinors'. From your picture and what you have said in other posts, it is clear that your car has been significantly altered over the years. 'Hastings' car has also been altered. Perhaps someone else can post up a pick of an original SII 2-door switch in situ. I believe the travellers, and not just the 4-doors, also had the self-cancelling switch......

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geoberni
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:45 pm

Cheers ManyMinors

I just found an older topic relating to Switch types and locations from last year, where PB put up a photo of his switch, in the usual location.

viewtopic.php?t=68620#p625862

I quite like my one where it is, the Mrs will often cancel the switch for me while I'm still doing gear changes after pulling out of junctions.... :lol: :lol:
Can't see me changing it and leaving a big hole!

myoldjalopy
Yes, Basil seems to have had lots of changes in the decades before I got him. Some of which I have reversed as they were such bodge jobs.
Basil the 1955 series II

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geoberni
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:49 pm

Be nice if Lewlo93 came back sometime to let us know how s/he is getting on. :cry:
Basil the 1955 series II

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Hastings
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby Hastings » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:53 pm

I presume the brown switches are like hen's teeth nowadays?

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geoberni
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:48 pm

Hastings wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:53 pm
I presume the brown switches are like hen's teeth nowadays?
I have seen the occasional one at Autojumbles, of course you don't know if they work, but if you have basic electrical knowledge, there's no reason not to take a multimeter with you and do some basic continuity checks before you buy. I've done that to check basics of electrical temp gauge before now. Got myself a decent Smith Temp gauge for £4 doing that.

They are also available on ebay, but cost around £45 to £80 and some of those are newer reproductions.

Search for 'classic car Lucas indicator switch' or 'LUCAS SPB120', there's both black and white available.
Basil the 1955 series II

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Hastings
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Re: Flashing indicators and trafficators

Postby Hastings » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:32 pm

[/quote]
Search for 'classic car Lucas indicator switch' or 'LUCAS SPB120', there's both black and white available.
[/quote]

Thanks for the help, will take a look.


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