dead moggy

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darrenj
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dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:52 pm

Well today was going well, the sun shining, right its time, im gonna take my moggy on the road for the fist time, got in, started, feeling good, the car has now been running for 2-3 mins, check lights, f£@@####, big cloud of smoke from under the bonnet from fuse area, car died, help mee,
I have tried restarting with no luck or ignition, oil or batt light, have checked fuses, fine, no signs of burnt wires, all connections are good, I do have spots fitted and the connections and fuse for them are fine, very disappointed as this was going to be maiden voyage for me and my mog, not a very good start, any help greatly appreciated,
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pgp001
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Re: dead moggy

Postby pgp001 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 pm

Have you got a voltmeter or a bulb on two bits of wire that you can start checking circuits with ?
The trouble with electricity is you can't see it, so if there are no obvious signs of damage you will need to check it through with a meter.

You say the fuses are OK, so there has to be a bad connection somewhere, how did you check the fuses ?
My car had a fusebox problem, in that the fuse clips were oxidised and not making a good connection when the fuses were pushed in.

Does your horn and interior lights still work ?
Do any of your lights still work ?, there is a separate fuse in the side light circuit.

Do you still have a control box and dynamo, or is it converted to alternator ?

I don't want to sound condescending but have you got a wiring diagram, and do you understand how to read it for checking purposes ?

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28295

The cloud of smoke suggests burning insulation, so you may have fried the feed wire to the fuses or the control box if nothing is working.

Phil

geoberni
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Re: dead moggy

Postby geoberni » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:18 pm

If there was a 'Cloud of Smoke' then something must have shorted out big style.
Has the Voltage Regulator burnt out?
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SteveClem
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Re: dead moggy

Postby SteveClem » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:24 pm

It won’t be ‘dead’...just a bit poorly. If you’re not confident about auto electrics get someone to check it out for you :wink:

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:41 pm

Thanks guys, fuses checked visually, no dynamo alternator fitted, will check regulator tomorrow as that's were the smoke came from although the bonnet was down, hope its nothing too serious I've been wiring ages to drive it, so now its called willy, as in will he ever go again or won't he 😉 thanks guys,

geoberni
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Re: dead moggy

Postby geoberni » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:36 pm

OK, so if you're an Alternator, then the Regulator/Control Box isn't doing anything, but if the wiring to it hasn't been changed appropriately then there's a good chance the alternator has spent a few minutes feeding a short circuit. :o
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darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:50 am

Fair enough, only realised this morning that regulator should be dead, however that's the first check today, will let you know how i got on, thanks

geoberni
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Re: dead moggy

Postby geoberni » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:07 am

darrenj wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:50 am
Fair enough, only realised this morning that regulator should be dead, however that's the first check today, will let you know how i got on, thanks
You've not said if you've had the wiring apart during the work you have been doing, but since you have painted the car, I'm assuming you did have it removed. I strongly recommend you read this topic.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=36486
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darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:26 am

Could you tell me what size fuses the car takes I know the thinner wired one is 15 amp but what about the thicker one as the end has come off and it doesn't say ampage, have found a dodgy wire on a1 of regulator box which should be ignition switch if I'm right, anyway have sorted that but now have no oil pressure light, no ignition light, no fuel pump, no lights, so hopefull of some new fuses, or could the regulator have burned out have removed cover and it all looks clean and ok but not sure, the car does now turnover but obviously won't fire up no fuel etc, thanks

geoberni
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Re: dead moggy

Postby geoberni » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:57 am

When the car has undergone a modification from Dynamo to Alternator, the Voltage regulator/Control Unit serves no purpose other than to be a Cable Junction Box.
You said earlier you had smoke from under the bonnet, yet now you're referring to a "dodgy wire on a1".
Smoke from the wiring is a whole lot more than a 'doggy wire'.
As I said, please go and read the posts in the link I posted earlier about the correct way to wire it up.

Have you got the car correctly wired up for an Alternator after you've re built it following the paint job?

A photo of the Regulator and it's wiring as it was at the time of the incident would be a great help.

Both main fuses on all Minors, as far as I'm aware are 35 amp, so heavens knows what you're doing with a 15 amp, especially as you seem so knowledgable of it's value :roll:
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darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:20 pm

When I said smoke from under bonnet obviously the bonnet was down and i didn't see exactly where it came from as I was sat I the car and the smoke came from around the regulator area when I noticed the smoke I turned off ignition released the bonnet and opened the bonnet at wich time the smoke had gone so looking through wires finally found a dodgy looking wire crimp fitting into A1 on rogulator unit or control box on further inspection today I have relooked at things and one fuse says 15 amp on blue background in the fuse so its no wonder I'm so knowledgable about what size fuse it is, as for the paint job no the wording was not removed as its an ongoing project that has been made roadworthy, I have no idea how a 15 amp fuse got there other than it was there when I got the car, not everyone wants a complete resto on the spot I've never done this before and am learning as I go wich is why I ask questions, the last time it had work done on it in the 90s by different owners could be a reason its not right, im just trying to get it right, ok,

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:23 pm

Sorry but also, how can I give a picture of what it looked like when it happened if I've sorted it before you asked for pic,

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les
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Re: dead moggy

Postby les » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:40 pm

Your first post mentions the engine stopping when you checked lights, I’m reading that as when you turned the lights on. It might be an idea to check out the lighting wires, could be causing a direct short when activated. If you tried the spots when this happened, look there.


geoberni
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Re: dead moggy

Postby geoberni » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:47 pm

Sorry if I assumed that as you'd repainted the car you had also painted in the engine bay.

So you hadn't touched the wiring at all then?

I was trying to establish if the wiring had been altered between the last time the car was used and your smoke incident.

If the wiring was hot enough to give you noticeable smoke coming out the back edge of the bonnet, it is not simply a 'doggy wire' at a terminal. Chances are you've burnt out a cable. If you replace any fuse without finding the problem first, all you're likely to do is burn more wiring.

The thing with trying to diagnose wiring problems over the forum is that if the person asking for the help does not give all the required info then those trying to help are making assumptions to try and fill in the gaps.

darrenj wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:23 pm
Sorry but also, how can I give a picture of what it looked like when it happened if I've sorted it before you asked for pi
Well, last you told us you hadn't sorted it since you said
oil pressure light, no ignition light, no fuel pump, no lights,
As your car is, from the registration, an early Minor 1000, I don't think the lights, nor fuel pump, even go through a fuse; but anything is possible, depending on what past owners have done.

I wish you well with your car but someone else can try and help now....

I would highly recommend you find someone who can actually look at it for you.
Last edited by geoberni on Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:08 pm

Ok thanks for your help

martin418
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Re: dead moggy

Postby martin418 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:01 pm

hi what's your location ? there might be a member local to you who could help

StillGotMy1stCar
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Re: dead moggy

Postby StillGotMy1stCar » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:29 pm

The wiring of the Minor evolved over the years, one addition was the 15 amp fuse in a plastic bayonet type fuse holder, this fuse is for the side/tail/number plate lights. Geoberni’s car doesn’t have this fuse.

You say it now turns over, has your car got a pull starter switch or does the starter operate on the key switch?
Regards John

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les
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Re: dead moggy

Postby les » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:47 pm

As suggested by martin and geoberni if you get stuck someone actually being there to look with you can be helpful. Other than that a meter is pretty essential, to trace wires and check for 12 volts, and as I found recently on my van wiring. Following a wiring diagram and step by step approach can eliminate issues. I must say though if I saw smoke coming out of the bonnet I’d be searching real hard for damage first, even if it meant peeling back some harness wrapping. Something has melted.
Last edited by les on Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.


darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:50 pm

Problem found, new regulator required,

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:57 pm

Thanks everyone, im nr portsmouth, and I've just taken the regulator off an looked at the back and one of the strips is missing a bit in the middle and the other is black sooty, so from the front of the unit it means A1 was sooty and A had all but diapeared, thankyou all for your help , I am aware though something caused this, just got to work out what,


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