dead moggy

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geoberni
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Re: dead moggy

Postby geoberni » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:01 pm

darrenj wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:50 pm
Problem found, new regulator required,
No, No, No.....
See my earlier comments, the Regulator doesn't do anything when an Alternator is fitted. Don't waste your money getting a new one.
Retention of the Regulator on a conversion is purely cosmetic value, 'looking like it should still' and acting as a place to join a few wires.
if it looks alright from the outside, just leave it there.

Or replace it with a Terminal box as fitted to later cars built with Alternators. should be a lot cheaper.
http://bestcarmag.com/sites/default/fil ... 161v49.jpg
Basil the 1955 series II

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pgp001
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Re: dead moggy

Postby pgp001 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:08 pm

I think someone has already mentioned that the control box/voltage regulator is not required if you have an alternator installed.
Some people leave it in place just as a way of connecting all the wires together and it is purely just a junction box that serves no other purpose.
My own car which is fitted with an alternator does not have a control box.

So the bottom line is I would not waste your money replacing it, just connect everything up as per the wiring diagrams already provided and you should be OK.

Phil

geoberni just beat me to it whilst I was editing :D

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:31 pm

Ok, will leave box alone,

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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:37 pm

StillGotMy1stCar wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:29 pm
The wiring of the Minor evolved over the years, one addition was the 15 amp fuse in a plastic bayonet type fuse holder, this fuse is for the side/tail/number plate lights. Geoberni’s car doesn’t have this fuse.

You say it now turns over, has your car got a pull starter switch or does the starter operate on the key switch?
Regards John
Hi john, its on a pull switch, and has a glass 15 amp, and I now assume a 35 amp fuse also glass,

StillGotMy1stCar
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Re: dead moggy

Postby StillGotMy1stCar » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:20 pm

Sorry for late reply, I’ve been out.
I asked about the type of starter switch because the rest of the car can be dead with a working pull switch.
Yes the two fuses in the fuse box are 35 Amp.
I see things have progressed, you have found the weakest link that has blown. It is good to know it has saved your wiring loom and possible fire.
You now need to find the cause that as mentioned by yourself and Les is most likely with the headlight wiring including the dip switch, the headlights have no fuse protection, check for wires rubbing through to the bodywork, grommets missing on inner wing etc, also check those spot lights.
You could see if you can safely add two strands of 30 Amp (making 60 Amp a bit high but better than nothing) household fuse wire across the link in the regulator or between A and A1 either by soldering or using brass screws and nuts to maintain some basic protection. If you do solder it has to be really clean first, nice shiny metal…
If I added an alternator to mine I would keep the regulator and find a way of adding a fuse link between A and A1 and possibly remove the bobbins, just my thoughts.
You could just join the all the wires on A and A1 together but in a fault condition the loom will be damaged.
Whilst trying to find the fault use some 30 amp fuse wire between A and A1 to be on the safe side.
Good luck!
Regards John

simmitc
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Re: dead moggy

Postby simmitc » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:33 pm

Darrebnj, sorry to ask such a basic question, but are you certain that it's an alternator and not a dynamo? Also, does it have the standard fuse box fitted? It would be helpful to have a photo of the alternator/dynamo and also a picture of the bulkhead showing the control box and fuse box.

I've lost track of exactly where we are, so could you provide some yes/no answers to the following:
  • Is the battery fully charged?
    Are the side lights working?
    Are the head lights working?
    Is the interior light working?
    When pulling the starter, does the engine turn over?
With ignition ON
  • Does the fuel pump "tick"?
    Do the indicators work?
    Do the brake lights work?
    Does the fuel gauge work?
    Do the wipers work?
    Do you get a spark from any of the plugs when turning the engine over?
Do you have a multimeter, and if yes, then what voltage is shown across the main battery terminals?

Thanks.

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:48 pm

In response to simitic,
Battery @12.4v
Engine turns over,,,,,,(pull start)
No interior lights or side light or brake lights,
No ticking on fuel pump,
No indicators
No fuel gauge
No wipers
Haven't checked spark,
Standard 2 fuse box
Defiantly alternator not dynamo
Think that's it,
Car was running turned lights on and then the car stopped with a puff of smoke blue sort of colour, have been talking to someone at work who reckons I might have burned out the coil??????
I am a quick learner but don't no much about cars however I do give things a go if I feel comfortable hence buying a mog,
Thanks hope it helps a diagnosis, will try and get some pics,

geoberni
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Re: dead moggy

Postby geoberni » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:50 pm

I'm going to reluctantly throw a point in here because we're in danger of missing the blindingly obvious......

Since posting
darrenj wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:57 pm
I've just taken the regulator off an looked at the back and one of the strips is missing a bit in the middle and the other is black sooty, so from the front of the unit it means A1 was sooty and A had all but diapeared,
We have had no mention of repairing this damage so it's no wonder practically nothing is working.

The engine is only turning over because the battery connects straight to the starter. Everything else is via the circuit wiring at A/A1. :roll:
Basil the 1955 series II

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darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:20 pm

But everyone told me to basically ignore the regulator it only connecting wires, so now I'm really confused!!!!!!!!!!
I have an alternator does the regulator do anything I only have wires in a1 and a, the coil is also fitted on that side, could it have been that, how do I test it ?? to make me sound thicker than I am,😊

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:29 pm

Pics I hope,
Attachments
WP_20190820_17_22_45_Pro.jpg
WP_20190820_17_22_45_Pro.jpg (1.35 MiB) Viewed 159 times
WP_20190820_17_22_11_Pro.jpg
WP_20190820_17_22_11_Pro.jpg (1.57 MiB) Viewed 159 times

geoberni
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Re: dead moggy

Postby geoberni » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:44 pm

darrenj wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:20 pm
But everyone told me to basically ignore the regulator it only connecting wires, so now I'm really confused!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, it connects them, The A and A1 terminals are connected together inside the Regulator.
There;s a technical battery charging reason for this when using a dynamo, but irrelevant with an alternator.
The alternative is to take all the brown wires off from A/A1 and connect them together some other way, hence earlier comments about using a Terminal Block.

So if you've got damage to the backs of A/A1 then the electrical energy is getting nowhere.
Your fault may have been a loose connection behind A/A1 which when fed energy by the alternator simply arced itself into an electrical fire. That's perhaps more likely than a fault elsewhere, although I still wouldn't rule that out.
Basil the 1955 series II

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darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:50 pm

There's only one solid brown wire two others are brown and blue shall I do these as well

pgp001
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Re: dead moggy

Postby pgp001 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:51 pm

Check if you have 12V on A but not A1, that would be your problem.

Phil

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:53 pm

Sorry I mean 2 brown and 2 blue brown, my bad,😀

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:05 pm

With 1 terminal on A1 and the other terminal on A I get 12.4v, if I do the same to the coil it reads 0, this is with batt connected and key in on position,

les
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Re: dead moggy

Postby les » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:22 pm

Why don’t you do what John suggested, way back. Join A1 and A via a 35amp fuse or fuse wire, bypassing the regulator that has apparent linkage damage. See what happens then, this action is basically taking you back to square one but instead of smoke, if a problem exists, the fuse should blow.


pgp001
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Re: dead moggy

Postby pgp001 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:25 pm

It sounds like you have a short to earth on the A1 side if you get 12V between A and A1.

If your meter measures ohms, check between A1 and earth to see what resistance there is. You may need to start disconnecting things then to isolate the problem.

Phil

darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:31 pm

I have just joined the two brown wires from A which was the damaged one but still nothing, have tested the start switch 12.4v, tested fuses 12.4v, fuel pump 0v, coil 0v,
To be fair Phil I might just do that, though it may take a while, means I miss the birthday drive, but hey rather have the car healthy ay, cheers,

les
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Re: dead moggy

Postby les » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:36 pm

It the wires from A1 and A that need to be linked, preferably via a fuse.


darrenj
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Re: dead moggy

Postby darrenj » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:52 pm

Ok, no spare fuses at the mo so will get some and try, thanks


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