Alternator conversion

[Owlsman]

Couldn't agree more geob! I love driving my Moggy - the key word there being, 'driving'. I know it's got standard drum brakes so I adjust my driving style accordingly i.e. give myself plenty of braking distance from the car in front...….which some 'modern' is bound to fill as soon as possible anyway.

To be fair, if your classic is your only and everyday car, it may be more important to have some modern day practical improvements but the joy for me in running a classic (in my case ''62 4 door saloon) is experiencing the contrast between my modern 'does-all-the-thinking-for-you' car and the getting back to the basics of actual driving. Even my humble Honda Jazz insists on buzzing and flashing a warning to tell me if I'm drifting from one lane to another. I have an alternative system in my Moggy - it involves using my eyes and my brain .

I've owned 3 MGB's at different times and was never ceased to be amazed how many fellow owners either fitted or wanted to fit walnut dashboards, electric windows, power steering, spax shockers, bored out blocks etc. etc. If those creature comforts are so important, better to just go for an MX 5.....and save yourself a packet.

For the record (and back on topic), I've recently fitted an alternator but I spent a bit more and bought a Dynamator i.e. an alternator in a dynamo casing. I also converted to negative earth.

My latest purchase arrived today - a Pye radio cassette player. Odd really, as virtually since the day I bought my moggy a year ago, I've spent ages trying to muffle the engine noise and eliminate every little rumble, squeak, rattle that I can...…..and now I want to introduce more noise into the passenger compartment . In my choice of ICE I've deliberately gone for something period(ish). The last thing I wanted was a radio/cd with 26 pre-set buttons, a digital display and a row of dancing lights. I'm hoping to tune my Pye into Housewife's Choice on the Light Programme when I get it fitted next week.

As often has been said though, on here and many other sites, it really is not up to anyone to criticise another's car as they are entitled to do what they want to it.

[kennatt]

From the outset I say everyone is entitled to change ,adapt and modify/customise any car they own within the legalities of the con and use regs of the road traffic act. But it always make me smile when these discussions crop up on here,been here many times.

There is a major difference between a classic /vintage in original state and the same car uprated to modern state,and its a state of mind of the individual as to the question ,is it a classic or a custom car. We have a custom/modified section on here to cater for that.

back in the 70ies many fitted 2 litre twin cam fiat engines and 5 speed boxes,with various upgrades to brakes suspension etc I had one for a while, went like the proverbial sh......t of a stick, was it still a moggy or a fiat twin cam with a moggy body fitted.

Each to their own as they say,but I would never offer criticism to any who go down that route,but if you want a classic, which can hold its own with boy racers in saxos and lately fiat 500 that seem to be all doing 70 everywhere , and perform like a modern there are plenty about. Rover 2000,mgbs ,triumphs etc. All at a premium . I had a scimitar 2.8 GTC for a number of years not many blew me away in that lump.

The only thing I would say is that in years to come there will be a slow fall in the numbers of minors available, anyone wanting an original will struggle . May be we will be discussing how to change an alternator back to a dynamo,or where to obtain a set of 7 inch drums
c

[ManyMinors]

you still have to grovel on the floor with a screwdriver to adjust the clicker wheels. pointless waste of time in my book.

fit discs and be done with it. check the fluid once a month and enjoy.

Do you have discs on the back as well then?
Have you eliminated the need to lubricate your swivel joints regularly too?
Even if you fit discs to the front you're still going to have to get on your knees to adjust the rear brakes and carry out the lubrication aren't you. A Morris Minor with properly maintained drum brakes and decent quality brake linings will pull up absolutely fine in normal use. As others have said, it is simply a choice - like fitting an alternator or not and fitting a 1275 engine or not......Owning a classic car or not.
Personally I don't find jacking the car up, removing the wheels and doing these jobs a couple of times per year a great hardship. It is simply part of classic car ownership and has to be done whichever braking system you employ.

[myoldjalopy]

'kennat': The only thing I would say is that in years to come there will be a slow fall in the numbers of minors available, anyone wanting an original will struggle
I would say that's the case already, especially for the earlier cars, the majority of which have been fitted with bigger engines and gearboxes, later indicator fittings, later interiors, servos, alternators and all manner of dials and guages, (often fitted, I might add, with brutal disregard to the harmonious symmetry of the dashboard).

[jagnut66]

I've owned 3 MGB's at different times and was never ceased to be amazed how many fellow owners either fitted or wanted to fit walnut dashboards, electric windows, power steering, spax shockers, bored out blocks etc. etc. If those creature comforts are so important, better to just go for an MX 5.....and save yourself a packet.

The MGB is a different beast entirely to the Morris Minor, I've owned two and thought they were great, with no need for extra power or different wheels etc.
A really comfortable motorway cruiser, especially after I'd renewed the seat covers and padding in the second one (they were saggy and torn). Loved it, another car I wish I'd never sold.
The only thing I changed, ironically, was the alternator, when one packed up and then I did fit a higher output one, as I read comments from owners, stating that the standard one wasn't really up to much.
Oh, and I tucked the cigar lighter away and fitted a blanking plug, so it was only used for charging phones etc.
Sorry, I can't stand the smell of fags, so no smoking in my cars.
Best wishes,
Mike.

Earl the MGB GT:

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[kennatt]

I rebuilt 5 mgb mainly gts,over the years,they were prone to the usual rust traps sills,being the worst area for rust and repair,if you think moggie sill are a bit of a pain,you need to try an mgb sill,front wing off rear wing off or bottom half cut off to be replaced after because the sills extend into the front and rear wheel arches,it is very similar in sections to the moggie.I gave up on mgbs when the prices of repair sections and full panels made it uneconomical, replacement front wings hit£200 (in the mid 80s) Probably twice that now,and you could pick up reasonably conditions cars for £500 or so and engines in scrap yards from the 1.8 Morris marina .To day I think the minor range is still the most financially doable rebuild both bodily and mechanically,MGBs are now demanding very high prices,Wonder if minors will every catch up. As an aside I once had an mgc ,three litre straight six ,with torsion bar front suspension Not many of them left now they ARE ALL UP TREES OR IN FIELDS.JUST WOULDN'T GO ROUND CORNERS.would have been fantastic with a lighter twin cam same with the B shame they never got round to upgrading the engine

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

I would be interested to see the results of a braking test between a Minor with discs and one with factory specification drums.

[Banned User]

I would be interested to see the results of a braking test between a Minor with discs and one with factory specification drums.

Each stop would favour the vehicle with discs more and more.

[ManyMinors]

I had to perform an emergency stop from 50mph recently in my standard drum braked Minor 1000. Another vehicle pulled slowly out of an entrance in front of me. The wheels locked immediately and the Morris pulled up in a perfect straight line. I doubt a disc braked Minor would have done any better. I agree that if I had carried out the same operation several times in succession then disc brakes would give me an advantage as drum brakes are more inclined to get hot and "fade". However I cannot foresee any likelihood of that being necessary in my normal driving
As we've said before though, if people feel their brakes are inadequate in standard form and want to invest the money then there is no real reason not to fit disc brakes. Anything that makes the owner feel more confident and want to drive their Morris more must be a good thing after all!

[oliver90owner]

Locking the wheels is not the fastest way to stop - think here ABS fitted to modern cars is there to prevent the wheels from ceasing rotation. Disc brakes are likely better in this respect, even if the difference is marginal (on that first stop with relatively cool brake shoes/drums).

Back in the 60/70s I ran Fords Anglias, Cortinas and an Escort. There was no real comparison needed between discs and drums - the drums were definitely inferior (as well as needing very regular adjustment). We changed to discs as a simple matter of safety, what with the extra power we easily added back then.

[kennatt]

Whilst the minor, unmodified, could never compete with a modern both in safety and performance.If you choose to drive a classic you have to accept that fact and drive it accordingly . Or modify. But in the day the minor was far better than many similarly priced cars of the same class,some early cars had rod brakes all round ,the A30 had hydraulics drums on the front with a slave underneath operating a rod to the rear drums. I once had an Austin 8 with rod brakes when you turned a sharp corner one side rod would bind in its guides and put that side brake on, Fancy that anyone .
Cross ply tyres v radials,air bags, crumple zones , radar controlled speed in fog .(a friend of mine has a range rover vogue and he tells me that in fog he just lets the radar slow him down when there is anything in front that he can't see yet frightening ) You either keep up with development and buy a new car every year or so,or drive a classic and accept it for what it is
,but as many say each to their own.I don't own a classic at present, (sold my ser11,1955, scimitar1970 and gave my mgb gt 1970 to my son who now drives it about in france ,when I moved to a smaller house with no room for storage)Keep looking for another but only half heartedly,just missed a reasonably traveller ,always fancied one of those.I'm at the age now where crawling about under cars with welding splatter running down my arms has lost its appeal ,still have the track marks on my forearms to remind me

[ManyMinors]

I think we're all aware of the advantages that ABS can give in extreme situations and that disc brakes will also improve the braking to an extent. The point I am making is that a completely standard Minor 1000 maintained in good condition is still a perfectly practical, safe and reliable means of transport - and that the whole reason for many of us running one IS to enjoy a different driving experience without all the complications of a modern car. If I increased the power of my Minor then I would consider improvements to the braking as well but my Minor keeps up with the traffic perfectly adequately and if speed was so important on a journey I would use my modern car instead. In reality I find that most journey times are largely the same whichever car I drive.

[johngrigg]

Some years ago ,at a historic race meeting at Winton in NE Victoria ,a very tight and twisty circuit, I watched a Minor consistently out brake a gaggle of minis. I spoke to the driver after the race, who told me he was running standard Morry drums as that was all the regs allowed. Go figure, me? I have Morris Major/ Wolseley drums all round, have always been more than adequate. If you think discs are better fit them by all means. Just don't expect a magic bullet!)

[Banned User]

Go figure, me?

Some drivers are better on the brakes, some are good at starts, some at left hand bends. You only have to watch a one make championship or karting to see it.

[oliver90owner]

The term “more than adequate” likely leaves quite a bit to be desired. I always strove to make the brakes on my cars (back the) as good as possible, not just a bit more than “adequate”.

[les]

To be fair, the poster, said MORE not a BIT MORE, quite a difference !

[ampwhu]

you still have to grovel on the floor with a screwdriver to adjust the clicker wheels. pointless waste of time in my book.

fit discs and be done with it. check the fluid once a month and enjoy.

Do you have discs on the back as well then?
Have you eliminated the need to lubricate your swivel joints regularly too?
Even if you fit discs to the front you're still going to have to get on your knees to adjust the rear brakes and carry out the lubrication aren't you. A Morris Minor with properly maintained drum brakes and decent quality brake linings will pull up absolutely fine in normal use. As others have said, it is simply a choice - like fitting an alternator or not and fitting a 1275 engine or not......Owning a classic car or not.
Personally I don't find jacking the car up, removing the wheels and doing these jobs a couple of times per year a great hardship. It is simply part of classic car ownership and has to be done whichever braking system you employ.

yes, I do. and when I need to grease the suspension, I raise the car to waste height. I gave up with silly drums, shoes and springs around 20 years ago. no improvement in my book. it's not difficult to change discs and pads.

from life experience, anybody that doesn't like something either hasn't tried it or can't afford it.

[Banned User]

Do you have discs on the back as well then?

yes, I do.

Without wanting to derail this thread anymore , do you have any details or a link to how you did the rear discs?

[philthehill]

Discounting as to whether I could afford to fit or not disc brakes to the rear axle (discs already fitted to the front) I always do a cost benefit analysis (CBA) and in addition to that I undertake to determine whether any conversion or modification I undertake is of real benefit to the car and my driving.
My Minor has always been and continues to be in a state of flux as regards improvements and modifications starting from day one of ownership which has lasted just over 50 years.
Having looked at fitting disc brakes to the rear axle I determined that there was no real benefit against cost so I continued with the Wolseley 1500 8" rear brakes. I am very happy with the Wolseley set up even though it does take a bit more maintenance than discs which is no real hardship.
When I was building my 1380cc race engine I did undertake a CBA as to whether fitting a KAD 16 valve head and fuel injection (very expensive) would give substantial benifits . Having looked around and studied examples of the 'A' Series /KAD set up I determined that even with 5 link rear suspension and coil overs fitted the cost of the KAD 16 valve set up and the level of returns gained could not be justified so settled on the Manx Racing 7 port head and twin 45 DOE Weber carbs which was still expensive but gave a better return on the expenditure.
My Quaife SC/CR gearbox is a case in mind the SC/CR Midget gearbox would not cope with the engine power output and after a CBA I decided to fit the RS2000 gearbox which over the years has metamorphized into a Quaife clubman box, every improvement to the gearbox was fully thought through and costed against returns.

Just because persons do not fit items that others consider essential does not mean that they have not been considered or cannot be afforded. Also you do not have to try it to determine whether it is useful to you or not.

Here is a link to a rear axle disc brake kit suitable for a Minor

https://www.frontlinedevelopments.com/p ... brake-kit/

[SriVik]

hi
just need a clarification,
if want to buy the alternator conversion kit from ESM and keep the regulator box for the classic look, the steps are

1. swap battery terminals to -ve to earth
2. fix the alternator with given bracket : adjust the belt accordingly
3. connect the big wire (alternator to starter switch) and the small wire (alternator to the small yellow wire taken from 'D' for ignition light)
4. switch the terminals behind ignition coil

correct me if im wrong...

next, may i know what alternator rating is perfect for standard wiring ? and which on ESM supplies...
like lucas alternator ASR 15/16/17/18/has output of 27A/34A/38A...

pls advice