Engine numbers in BHM

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rcbowman
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Engine numbers in BHM

Post by rcbowman »

Hello all -

I'm new here (and am located across the pond - but the population of Minors here doesn't make for a sufficient size community and knowledge base).

I've got a 1959 Minor 1000, LHD 2 door sedan, originally a 948, but the engine number is BHM1462N 1165, which doesn't match anything I've been able to find.

I've owned the car about a year, and have gotten quite a tour of its repairs so far, but the engine itself - touch wood - has run pretty well right along. I'm trying to find out what my engine is, without taking it apart, and no one seems to know about this sort of engine number, though one guy said BHM14somethings were factory replacements for the Mini.

Superficially it looks like a 948, from the pix I've seen, but it takes a clutch for a 1275 (1275 bolt pattern) and there's a pilot bearing with cylindrical rollers, which I'm told is like a 1275 engine, too. It has a ribcase gearbox (4speed).

Anyone know what a BHM1462 is, and where it came from, and when?

Thanks

Reed C Bowman
rayofleamington
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Post by rayofleamington »

The gearbox with visible 'ribbing' sounds like a later version from a '1098' or from the 1275 MG midget. Those gearboxes were very similar.
The original box for your car (948) would not have had any external ribbing, but don't worry too much about that as the 1098 gearbox is better than the 948 anyway.

As for the engine it is not easy to tell visually, but from memory:
1) the 948 had '948' cast into the block and
2) the 1098 has an aluminium plate held on with a stud that says '1098'. 3) There are also many other engines which may fit! (eg MG_1098, MG_1275, Morris Marina 1.3, and Morris Ital 1.3 etc....)

item #2 has 2 rectangular cover plates under the exhaust manifold which give limited access to the cam followers.
item #1 does not have these cover plates
item/s #3 can either have, or not have the cover plates depending on what engine it is!

As for the clutch bolting pattern - it depends if the flywheel was changed. I had a 1275 engine but the clutch was a 948, so the bolting pattern may have been the same, or the flywheel was from an early Minor 1000 - I never found out which.
Ray. MMOC#47368. Forum moderator.

Jan 06: The Minor SII Africa adventure: http://www.minor-detour.com
Oct 06: back from Dresden with my Trabant 601 Kombi
Jan 07: back from a month thru North Africa (via Timbuktu) in a S3 Landy
June 07 - back from Zwickau Trabi Treffen
Aug 07 & Aug 08 - back from the Lands End to Orkney in 71 pickup
Sept 2010 - finally gave up breaking down in a SII Landy...
where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(
Cam
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Post by Cam »

Reed,

I personally don't recognise the number, and it does not appear in any of my literature.

with regard to identification, have a look at the heater take off at the rear of the engine next to the bulkhead (firewall?) if the take off is parallel to the bulkhead then it is a small bore (948, 1098) if it is at a slight angle then it is a 1275.

You can also tell by the thermostat housing bolts.
Looking straight at the engine from the front (carb to the right, dizzy to the left).

If the thermostat housing bolts make a triangular shape with a flat side on the left, then it's a 1275. If the thermostat housing bolts make a triangular shape with a flat side towards the rear and an apex pointing straight forward, then it's a small bore (948, 1098).

There is also the possibility of A-Series or A+.

Look at the distributor. If it has a forked piece of metal holding it in, with a bolt going into the block to secure it, then it's an A+.

If it has a colar with a bolt attached to pinch the colar shut to secure the distributor, and the bolt does not go into the block but sits at 90 degrees to the block then it is a small bore (948, 1098).

Hope this helps a bit!
les
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Post by les »

Hello Reed,
I have some info that you might find interesting concerning your engine number. I once owned an Austin Allegro with engine number BHMxxxxN-xxxx
x = a single digit
So it had the same format as yours has, and the information at the time was that the engine was from the factory as an outright buy, ie new, not exchange. In fact I,m sure I.ve since seen the prefix in the Mini-sport catalogue confirming this. Will check and post again if necessary
engine number followed by N indicates new unit.
The BHM prefix is not limited to engines it also crops up for bearings and rings etc.
rcbowman
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Post by rcbowman »

Les - yes, that sounds like what the guy I spoke with was looking at: new engine purchased by itself from the factory, which makes sense if it was an upgrade. He was looking at Mini engines, as I said, but it was the only place he could find the prefix at all.

Thanks for this lead

RCB
1959 Morris Minor 1000 2-door saloon with (apparently) 1275 engine, LHD.
rcbowman
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Post by rcbowman »

Cam -

These are great instructions - thanks! I went down and spent a while inspecting the engine, and it's probably a 1275, but I'm not positive yet.

My heater is not connected, and the valve assembly I assume you're talking about is absent. Luckily I live in a climate where this is only an occasional and mild inconvenience.

The thermostat housing, however, clearly indicates a 1275 from what you've said, though its gasket has some odd extra parts sticking out as if it's trying to fit both styles at once.

Now, if the thermostat bolt pattern is conclusive, well and good. But the distributor bracket clearly accords with your description of an A+. Is this a contraindication for 1275ness? Or do we have here the fabled missing link in the evolution of the BMC engine - say around a 1111.5cc job? ;)

Now, if I can figure out what my strange distributor is, with its lack of distinguishing marks, I can get a badly needed new cap for it and maybe the car - if it's really a 1275 - will be ready for the freeway (er, motorway, that is...).

Thanks again for your help.

RCB
1959 Morris Minor 1000 2-door saloon with (apparently) 1275 engine, LHD.
Cam
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Post by Cam »

Reed,

Right!! If you have a 1275 type thermostat housing AND an A+ type distributor, then it looks like you have a Morris Ital engine fitted (same as me!).

It is very possible that the engine codes are the same as Minis / Allegros, as Itals were from the same period (later than the Minor).

The Allegro and Mini engines are basically the same, and both have an underslung gearbox and a rather peculiar crank arrangement, which makes them unsuitable for an in-line installation without serious modification. The Ital, however has the correct configuration, and is virtually a straight swap for the original 948cc engine.

If it is an Ital engine it should look something like this:

Image

Although the thermostat housing may look different. And you should have a breather canister at the front of the engine coming out of the timing chain cover which should have a pipe connected between it and the carb.

If your oil filter position is the same, then it is an Ital block, as only Itals and transverse Maestros had this filter arrangement.

Have a look at the block and see if you can see any casting numbers, although from the sounds of it, you have an Ital engine (1980-1984).
rcbowman
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Post by rcbowman »

Oh brave new world!

Hm. I'll get back to you on casting numbers, which I wrote down today, then left the paper behind. The oil filter is as in your pic. Thermostat and air filter are different, but the latter's pretty irrelevant. Oh, and the block's red, too...

So. An Ital. Which always looks like an abbreviation to me. I'll look around the forum archive and the web on that some more, but are we talking a 1380 or a 1275 here, or what? And while we're on the subject, what book(s) do I need for the future in dealing with this engine?

My distributor comment before was just offhand, but since you mention it as diagnostic of this type of engine, can you suggest how to figure out the exact type (I really think it has no numbers printed or stamped on it), or at least how to make a good first guess? It's probably whatever came when they bought this new engine. It's a modern-looking cylinder cap, not the old perpendicular-egress wire type, and not the neat old hemispheric cap, either.

BTW, Cam, I looked at your website. That 69 you've done all the work on must be a sweet driver. I don't think I'll ever be a tenth as ambitious - even if I ever get a moment free from repairs to do optional improvement work. But I would like to get what I can out of this car, and it would be nice to be able to take it on the freeway once in a while without fearing for its integrity and my sanity. I may need a new differential right now (though probably not - see my other topic under 'mechanical'). It might be worth getting one made for the bigger engines if so.
Cam
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Post by Cam »

The Ital looks like:

Image

The Haynes manual that you need is number 705.

Have a look on eBay, there are usually a few floating about.

The engine is 1275cc, mine is a rebored 1275 (a lot), making it a 1380.

The distributer you can use, is basically any A+ 1275 unit. such as Mini, Maestro, Metro, etc. I think (from memory the Lucas 45D4 will be suitable - best to check first though!).

Thanks for the complement on the '69 it's been hard work!!

With regard to the axle, the standard unit (even with hardened halfshafts) will only take about 70 BHP, if you are planning to go bigger, then you will need a unit capable of more. Mine is a Ford Escort MK 2 (UK Escort), and they are getting pretty rare here now, so the chances of you finding one over there are probably nil, as the US escort looks totally different from the UK one. I chose the escort type as it will take about 170 BHP and it is the same track as the Minor (to within about 1/4 to 1/2 an inch).

I don't know what alternatives are available in the US, but there must be something close.
rcbowman
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Post by rcbowman »

Just found my notes on this, and realized I'd never posted those engine casting numbers as I'd said I would last month. If Cam or anyone's still looking at this thread, here's what I found:

Next to the thermostat housing it says 1555
On the right side of the engine next the oil filter it says JZ
On the right side above the oil filter, and again on the left side low down near the back it says WFM 1120.

Mean anything?

Thanks

RCB
1959 Morris Minor 1000 2-door saloon with (apparently) 1275 engine, LHD.
Cam
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Post by Cam »

Mean anything?
Not to me, but mine says WFM 1025 in the same place that yours does.

Unfortunately I don't know what these numbers refer to!

I would assume that they are some sort of casting ID. If that is the case, and assuming that the numbers are sequential, then it looks like your block may have been manufactured after mine, and as the Ital engine was the last of the in-line A-series engines to be produced, then you could very well have an Ital engine!

Pure conjecture though!! :-?
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