1952 MM Tourer sedan or is it a Tourer??

[kenscar130]

I have a black 1952 2 Door MM Series Minor Sedan.

I have owned this car for 27 years and it is currently undergoing a long term restoration.
Its currently a resprayed bare body on wheels. When i bought the car it was a worn but original, complete going car.

I recently thought that I would obtain a British Motor Industry Heritage Trust build certificate from england for the car, as I have one for my other cars.

I knew it was about a Jan/Feb 1952 build car but what came back from England is very interesting

The build number matches, the engine number matches,the key number matches, the colour (interior and exterior) matches but !!!!

The certificate has the car/chassis number with an FCA21 prefix which equates to a black RHD export Minor Tourer

The build plate on the firewall has the SMM prefix saying its a 2 door Sedan which it is.

The build certificate says the engine number is a SV motor built 1948-50 without a water pump.
These numbers match the build plate on the firewall but as the car was built Jan 23/24 1952 and dispatched to export on 28 Jan 1952, was there a backlog supply of motors without waterpumps sitting around from say 1950 ?? The motor in the car is not the original number so I dont have that to check.

My reference books say that the FCA prefix wasnt introduced until April 1952 and that the SMM prefix was used up to car no 139438.
Also my car has the later bakelite/plastic glovebox lid emblem which was introduced inl March /April 1952 replacing the metal badge.

I emailed British Motor Industry Heritage Trust and they kindly rechecked their details but came to the same conclusion that the car left the Cowley factory as a tourer . They said if the build records were wrong when the car was going down the production line, that the information should have benn corrected at the dispatch department when the dispatch record was filed out.

I was still under the impression that BMIHT were wrong, until I went and examined the car closer.
It has the tourer strengthening panels underneath the dashboard and the strengthning brackets on the inner sill and welded to the B pillars.

I guess my questions are, has anyone else come across a similar situation where their hardtop 2 door sedan started life as a tourer?

Did my car get converted to 2 door sedan while still in England or when it got to Australia?

But why does the the build plate on the car have the SMM prefix one if it left England as a tourer ?

If built in Jan and dispatched on 28 Jan, the trip to Australia used to take about 12 weeks by ship.

Why has it got April 1952 characteristics??

Was it damaged in transit and then if repaired why as a hardtop why not repaired as a tourer??

Was there a shortage or waiting list of sedans in Aust and a glut of tourers, so some were converted to sedans?

I await any information or thoughts

Thank you in anticipation

Ken
Launceston Tasmania Australia

[sii803]

Ken,
Sounds very interesting indeed. I'm sure better versed people will weigh in but I have seen a period advert in a book of mine offering hard top conversions. Though I'm sure these have distinguishing characteristics. Good luck with the search.

matt

[kenscar130]

Thanks Matt.

I await any info or thoughts from anyone.

Ken

[mike.perry]

All very strange. I have your car on my records as SMM 131563 a 2 door saloon which is the information I have been supplied with by you or someone in Australia with a list of MMs.
As Matt says there was a hard top conversion available but I would have thought that it would have been the sort that was removeable.
I have never come across a saloon with tourer body strengthening plates.
It is quite common for saloons to be converted to tourers but not the other way round. There should be some evidence of welding somewhere, possibly behind the roof lining.
If your car was built in early 1952 I would have expected it to have the following features:-
Metal glovebox badge, no ashtray or mainbeam warning light in centre grill and a straight bulkhead crossmember in the engine compartment.
The USHM2 engine without the water pump was I believe replaced by the USHM3 engine in late 1950. I would have expected there to have been a certain amount of overlap and gold seal replacement early engines were fitted in much later cars but I would not have expected them to be fitted on the production line over a year later.
I assume that the car was exported fully built and not as a CKD. There is no sign of a EX/SMM chassis number which means that it was used by the experimental department and renumbered before being sold?
Mistakes in the records are not unknown. My car was shown as a Series II and had the key numbers transposed. I notified them and was sent a corrected certificate but I don't know if the records were ever corrected.
Do you have any photos you can post on the website?
I look forward to any further developments and if anyone out there has any suggestions????

[sii803]

Does the car have the moulding beneath the rear screen where the roof meets the lower panel work?

[kenscar130]

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

I am awaiting a fine weekend and the time to uncover the car push it out and check for the individual details people have mentioned.
I will then report back, but might be a week or two away.

Thanks again for everyones help.

Ken

Launceston Tas

[kenscar130]

Hi Mike

Have had a closer look and can add the following info.
Yes I supplied the inormation that you have on your records as I was an Owners Club member for a few years.That is correct, car is SMM 131563.
There is two rectangle/square shaped weld markes on both sides of the rear window opening on the inside of the car. Both evenly matching one another. Other features are the plastic glovebox emblem, an ashtray is fitted in the centre grille, there is no mainbeam warning light, it has the straight bulkhead cross member. SMM 131563 is stamped intothe firewall in the ususal place. Car was a exported fully built not an Aussie CKD car.
Any other ideas/
Its all very intriguing
Ken
Launceston Tas Australia<br><br>

[mike.perry]

In the photo I can see what looks like a weld at the bottom rear corner of the window which cuts through the moulding.
Is there any evidence of welding above the windscreen, behind the roof lining?

[mike.perry]

Ken, just having a read back through the notes. I am still baffled by the sill reinforcements on a 2 door saloon. Have you checked for any welding in the roof above the windscreen yet or uncovered any more info?

[rayofleamington]

I guess my questions are, has anyone else come across a similar situation where their hardtop 2 door sedan started life as a tourer?

According to one of the ray Newell books (can't remember which one) some of the tourers were converted back to saloons in the factory. This happened when they had overproduced tourers.
I often thought this was myth as I've never heard of a production 'tourer to saloon' car - however if these went to export market then it's not likely to come across one in the UK.

[beechford]

gday ken vic holyoak here also tassie my morris was sold to me at armitage as 1953 but investigations by members on this site prompted me to remve chassis plates ,which revealed a second plate with correct details to make my car 3 years older.see ya at bicheno

[mike.perry]

Kenscar and beechford. Could you please complete the registation form on this website and email it to me with both chassis nos. of your cars please. Many thanks
I have heard that too many tourers were produced and remained unsold and so were converted to saloons. This probably explains the confusion.

[POMMReg]

Is THIS the reason/explanation for LRBM?

Note the rear gutter line - shown in above pic - intersects "moulding", which suggests roof panel pre-dates 131563.

When was the intro of LRBM (7/50?).

Would Cowley or Zetland have earlier roof panels available?

Interesting stuff!

[Scott]

I've seen 2 genuine tourers/convertibles in Australia converted to sedans.
One was owned by Russell Hooke & looked like a factory conversion/modification. The other was owned by myself but was a rough backyard job that used a 4 door roof.
I'm sure the Russell Hooke car was a Series MM. IIRC, he sold it as a genuine Tourer with a roof, rather than as a sedan.
Mine was a Series II.

[RobThomas]

It would be interesting to see inside the front of the car above the windscreen and if there are any holes at the back below the seam where screws would go to hold the woodwork on if it was a tourer.