RECON ENGINE FOR SALE ON EBAY

[sparesman]

Just spotted a recon MM engine on ebay but listed as Series E when it is a hybrid between a late MM block with a Series E head. Would buy it for stock but it has to be collected and it is in Cornwall so might be of interest if you are closer.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORRIS-8-ENGI ... 1c5042359b
Bryan Gostling

[mike.perry]

Looks like a USHM3 block with water pump blanking plate and water jacket. Water jacket looks like WD with no dynamo mounting. Oil filter mounting has a blanking plate over it, not sure that would work as it would block the oil flow. Head gasket looks like Morris 8, water passage between distributor hole and centre stud and no passages either side of distributor hole, therefore not suitable for USHM2 or 3 engines

[smithskids]

Just needs a different head gasket. Block will have the other cooling holes under the gasket. That type of block will fit any Morris 8 type engine from 1934 to 54. Special blanking plate can be made to fit the oil filter blank provided a fine mesh filter is fitted to the oil pump which is different on the older engines with out filters.

[TvdWerf]

Why not use the oil filter for this block?
I have all the parts to make it a complete USHM3, and I am for sure I am not the only one ;)

[BLOWNMM]

Just needs a different head gasket. Block will have the other cooling holes under the gasket. That type of block will fit any Morris 8 type engine from 1934 to 54. Special blanking plate can be made to fit the oil filter blank provided a fine mesh filter is fitted to the oil pump which is different on the older engines with out filters.

G,day all
When the piston of a Series E is at TDC it is 3.0 mm. below the top of the block. However a MM piston at TDC is level with the top of the block. The MM and E rods have the same centre to centre distance of 165 MM. and both cranks have the same 90 mm. stroke. JP piston manufacturers here in Oz assure me the compression height of both pistons is the same at 27.99 mm. Assuming all of this is correct the only conclusions I can make are that the overall height of the E block is 3.0 mm more than the MM or the main bearing tunnell in the E is 3.0 mm. lower than the MM. The overall height of a MM block that has not had the top machined is 241 MM. Does anybody have a Series E block they can measure the height of ?
Cheers Bob

[TvdWerf]

I can do it, but I know a difference in pistons and Blocks.
A guy in this area has bought some Morris E pistons for his BMB President, and saw the difference in position after mounting them.
His engine has a lower compression now, but is running.
I have 4 of his old pistons here, they are the same as the USHM3 pistons
What I understand from this, is the whole group of parts should be together from the same block to let it work.
This is my spare block, what point I should measure?[frame][/frame]

[BLOWNMM]

Hi
Measure the distance (height) between the sump face and the top of the block. I have a 300 mm. vernier caliper and the height measured for an unmachined MM block was 241 mm.
Cheers Bob

[TvdWerf]

The engine on the picture has 240 mm between top and bottom surface, and my other spare engine also.
The one in my car is not so easy to measure, but I can check my spare pistons also when needed.
And last but not least, I have a spare crankshaft, and a lot of rods, but I have to find them first between all the old parts ;)

[BLOWNMM]

This would suggest that the piston manufacturer here in Oz was not correct when stating the compression height for a Series E and MM are the same. However this does not completely clarify the situation as I have previously obtained a set of pistons from them for a 1948 Series E motor which I rebuilt. The pistons at TDC were 3.0 mm. below the top of the block as was specified in the workshop manual ? The pistons now in my MM cannot be compared because they were especially made to my specification, with a compression height of 28.00 mm. They are level with the top of the block at TDC. The fact that your measurement was 240 and not the 241 that I measured, could mean that the deck had been re-surfaced at some time. This would be evident if the engine number was not stamped on the deck at the front. If you are sure of what motor the spare pistons you have are from, it would be interesting to know their compression height. The easiest way to determine this is to measure the distance between the top of the gudgeon pin hole and the top of the piston, then add to this 7.5 mm. I suspect this should be 27.99 mm.
Bob

[TvdWerf]

One engine did not had the number anymore on the top, the other had.
But yes, the one with the number is 241 mm.[frame][/frame]
Left are the BMB President pistons, the dirty one is the USHM3 piston from the "red" engine.
But all my pistons are the same, logic because it are all USHM3 pistons, most of them from the engines in my barn ;)
My own engine is also a little bit less than 241, with the revision I removed a little

[mike.perry]

Morris 8 Bore/Stroke 57/90. Comp Ratio 5.8/1. Conrod Centres 6.496in. cc 918.6. BHP 23.5@3,900rpm
Morris 8E Bore/Stroke 57/90. Comp Ratio 6.5/1. Conrod Centres 6.496in. cc 918.6. BHP 29.6@4.400rpm
Morris MM Bore/Stroke 57/90. Comp Ratio 6.7/1. Conrod Centres 6.496in. cc 918.6. BHP 27.5@4,400rpm
Data Morris 8 Information Manual and Morris Minor Workshop Manual

[BLOWNMM]

Tvd
You said a guy in your area bought some Morris E pistons for his BMB President and saw the difference. His engine then had a lower compression ratio but was running. This suggests that the compression height of a Series E piston is less than a USHM3 possibly by about 3 mm. which would explain why the Series E piston is 3 mm. below the block at TDC. Seems to be the only reason bought to light so far. Would be interesting to have someone with a genuine E piston (hopefully the same as the ones the guy in your area bought) measure the compression height.
Mike
There was nothing I could see in your post to shed any light as the two measurements that could change the outcome were the crank strokes and centre to centre distances of the rods. These measurements had been correctly established in my post on March 27 at 11:58 PM. Also in my Nuffield Morris 8 Series E workshop manual on page 4 general data for USHM1 the compression ratio is quoted as 6.5/6.7:1. In my Nuffield Morris Minor Series MM and Series11 workshop manual on page 6 general data USHM2 engine the C/R is also quoted as 6.5/6.7:1
Cheers Bob

[BLOWNMM]

Tvd
The measurement of 240 mm. from the block pictured is not the one I was after. Your block and the one of the motor listed on ebay are both USHM3. The measurement I am trying to establish is that from a Series E USHM1 motor. This was the question originally asked in my post of Mar. 28 9:58 am. The reason is that it may reveal the reason why the piston of a USHM1 is 3.0 mm. below the top of the block at TDC, given that the rods are the same and so is the stroke. Although the Series E Nuffield workshop manual does not show a pic of this, the blue covered Morris 8 Information Manual illustrates this on page 46.
Cheers Bob

[sparesman]

Series E and MM use the same pistons. It may be that the pistons from a Series 2 or 3 Morris 8 have been used as they are a different length but would need to dig out my Hepolite catalogue to confirm exact measurements.
Bran, MMOC Spares Manager

[TvdWerf]

with 2.5 spare engines and a lot of pistons here, I am interested ;)

[les]

Buy yourself a new measuring tape!

[TvdWerf]

My Morris and my wife needs to much money, so I have to use the old measuring tape for a while ;)