UFN 456 plumbing

for those with Series MM sidevalve cars produced between September 1948 and February 1953

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gtt1951
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UFN 456 plumbing

Postby gtt1951 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:02 pm

I'm trying to sort out the hybrid plumbing that this car has got - both "no pump" and "with pump".
Photo below shows the bottom hose "without water pump"
s-l1600-15.jpg
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The next picture, from a different angle shows the other plumbing (magenta) that goes to the water pump
short-circuit heater hose and dangling hose.jpg
short-circuit heater hose and dangling hose.jpg (226.39 KiB) Viewed 553 times
With bottom hose removed
IMG_20190305_123825.jpg
IMG_20190305_123825.jpg (1.82 MiB) Viewed 553 times
you can then see the dangling capped-off alternative bottom hose
IMG_20190305_123835.jpg
IMG_20190305_123835.jpg (1.64 MiB) Viewed 553 times
I decided that the rad must come out to get a better view (and also refit the dynamo bracket adjusting nut&bolt) - problems - next post.

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

gtt1951
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby gtt1951 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:07 pm

The Rad won't come out!
top left rad bolt.jpg
top left rad bolt.jpg (1.49 MiB) Viewed 550 times
I have loosened all the bolts (3) with the exception of the one pictured - there was a "crack" and the bolt just goes round and round.
Seems that the captive nut has broken free.
What is the best way to get this sorted out?

Whatever I touch on this car just leads me to more repair works (I'll post up what was done to the copper fuel pipe by the re-selling dealer in a separate thread).

George.

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

RobThomas
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby RobThomas » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:57 pm

Top hose is OK or you can get 2 x 1098 temperature blanking plugs to close the ports off.. Bottom hose should go from bottom of rad to the bottom of the waterpump (assume it is fitted under all that stuff???) and a blanking plate fitted to the right side of the engine block.
Cardiff, UK

smithskids
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby smithskids » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:44 am

angle grinder to remove head off bolt or a slim spanner to try and lock trapped nut and a lot of release oil. Once rad is out you can get at the trapped nut easier. I think its 3/8 bsf thread.

RobThomas
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby RobThomas » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:56 am

Next time I have to do this same job i'm gonna slice out the old captive nut and weld in a solid nut so the bu66er never fights me ever again. Any alignment issues will be resolved with a Dremel to the framework of the front panel. Job done!! :D
Cardiff, UK

gtt1951
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby gtt1951 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:21 pm

smithskids wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:44 am
angle grinder to remove head off bolt or a slim spanner to try and lock trapped nut and a lot of release oil. Once rad is out you can get at the trapped nut easier. I think its 3/8 bsf thread.
Thanks Smithkids, the bolt/set screw appears to be 5/16" BSF, same as the seat mounting and wing bolts - also the same size as the one ESM sell for rad mounting.
Now, it may not have been this size when the car started out, but the floor bolts fit the captive nuts that are currently on the rad.
Can't get at the loose nut as the radiator side mount curves round too much and goes past the end of the cooling fins.
My"dremel" device handle is too long to get at the bolt head, so it looks like using my angle grinder - will have to be very careful not to damage the surrounding area. I have a feeling the that bolt head will rotate as I'm cutting :( , may need to use a grinding disc instead.

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

gtt1951
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby gtt1951 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:30 pm

I've ground/cut the bolt head off - during (out of focus)
IMG_20190306_163136.jpg
IMG_20190306_163136.jpg (1.02 MiB) Viewed 493 times
bolt head gone (some minimal surface damage to brass overflow pipe)
IMG_20190306_164422.jpg
IMG_20190306_164422.jpg (1.3 MiB) Viewed 493 times
The dynamo is not the one that Rob showed in 2011 and the new wiring loom had not been positioned correctly to the front of the engine as the crankshaft pulley has been rubbing it!
IMG_20190306_164916.jpg
IMG_20190306_164916.jpg (1.16 MiB) Viewed 493 times
IMG_20190306_164930.jpg
IMG_20190306_164930.jpg (1.58 MiB) Viewed 493 times
this is the water pump
Attachments
IMG_20190306_164911.jpg
IMG_20190306_164911.jpg (1.19 MiB) Viewed 493 times

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

gtt1951
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby gtt1951 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:41 pm

It beggars belief that such a fastidious man as Hugh Davy, who kept meticulous records of time and money spent on this car since the day he bought it, could be a bolt-botcher.
The rad was secured with over-size bolts (wing size) instead of the 1/2" length ones that should have been used.
As a consequence, damage has been done to the cooling fins of the radiator core
cut off bolt top.jpg
cut off bolt top.jpg (1.56 MiB) Viewed 492 times
opposite side
opposite side.jpg
opposite side.jpg (1.29 MiB) Viewed 492 times
I haven't noticed damage at the bottom (yet).
It wasn't easy keeping in position with the angle grinder and it did take a while even though I was using the thinnest disc I had.
The tool that was used
IMG_20190306_163124.jpg
IMG_20190306_163124.jpg (1.28 MiB) Viewed 492 times

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

seriesmm_1
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby seriesmm_1 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:02 pm

Hi Les
I had very similiar problems as you on the plumbing of my '52 mm, I then followed the workshop manual for the Series mm, its in section S under heater.The diagram very informative.
With regard to the rad its taken a hammering,might be a thought to get it re-cored & then the fixings can be sorted
lovely challenge tho
Regards
BrianR


RobThomas
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby RobThomas » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:48 pm

That's a Morris 1000 dynamo pulley. Completely different size and shape to the groove, hence it doesn't fit properly. You need an MM or Morris 8 pulley.

I've a feeling that car might have changed hands a few times since Hugh had it. When it was for sale there were lots of bits missing so one of the later owners might have done the rather ugly bits.

Looking forwards to seeing photos of the sill area. :D
Cardiff, UK

gtt1951
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby gtt1951 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:11 pm

I've had to give up on getting the radiator bolt stub out - the cage for the gaged-nut just keeps opening up as I try to turn the bolt stub with mole-grips. I've punched down the top section and also griped the sides with crocodile snipe-nose mole-grips, to no avail.
The protruding stub can still be used to hold that part of the rad in place.
I've straightened all the deformed cooling fins and the rad does not leak - thank goodness.
I have also removed the bit of "hose" off the unusual engine block fitting
IMG_20190324_145403.jpg
IMG_20190324_145403.jpg (2.38 MiB) Viewed 377 times
Anyone seen such a fitting before?
I've tentatively tried to undo the fixing bolts, but they are not budging - I'm afraid of shearing them, so will have to decide about reverting the engine to "no water pump", remove the pump and source a blanking plate, or blank off this odd fitting somehow.
Any suggestions?

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

DAVIDMCCULLOUGH
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby DAVIDMCCULLOUGH » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:34 pm

Im not sure but I would guess that it is for one of those Smiths auxiliary type pumps that mount on top of the dynamo and run off the fan belt. I do have one of them but was never sure were the water supply would come from!!
Attachments
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2018-04-10 14.35.03.jpg (3.24 MiB) Viewed 360 times


Too many Minors so little time.....

gtt1951
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Re: UFN 456 plumbing

Postby gtt1951 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:05 pm

David,
Thanks for the reply and the insight into what my fitting is.
Your gizmo looks very interesting indeed. Looks to be friction driven off the top outside-edge of the belt as the "pulley" wheel is smooth. - the belt being quite wide.
You now have an answer to the water supply question.
My car came with a round Smiths Heater, which is currently "on the bench" as the speed control knob had been botched. External rheostat knob now installed in the Bakelite front cover, just need to reinstate the white and black power feed wires.
The replacement "formed" heater hoses, I got from ESM, would reach the cylinder head-mounted brass tap and the add-on dynamo mounted "pump".
s-l1600-13.jpg
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IMG_20190306_164855.jpg
IMG_20190306_164855.jpg (1.84 MiB) Viewed 353 times
I don't suppose your gizmo is for sale?

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.


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