Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

for those with Series MM sidevalve cars produced between September 1948 and February 1953

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peteatreat
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Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby peteatreat » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:49 pm

Hi again
I am having problems trying to remove the cylinder head following a blown gasket. For something that should be relatively straight forward is proving to be difficult.
As you can see from the photo below, the engine is presently suspended with the hope that the weight of the block will help dislodge the head. You can also see that some studs have been removed, some sheared off and some yet to be attempted. The engine is in the workshop where I work in the transport industry and the mechanics have tried various methods to try to dislodge the head.
If anyone has experience of this or any ideas what to try, please let me know.
I am reluctant to use brute force just in case it gets damaged but perhaps this may now be the only option?
Please can I have your thoughts.
Thank you.
Pete.
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RobThomas
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby RobThomas » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:50 pm

No easy short-cut. Be careful since those USHM2 heads aren't easy to find.

TDC, petrol, plug and a spark might get it to 'crack' the friction? Alternatively, filling the cylinder partially with grease and then winding the crank round fast to hydro-lock it? Neither sound appealing but might end up being your only option. :cry:
Cardiff, UK

philthehill
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby philthehill » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:52 pm

Not a straight answer but food for thought:-
If you can find a set and they are rare these days a stud tube saw is what you need. The saw blade fits over and around the stud and a narrow cut is made down the outside of the stud so releasing the stud from the head.

The stud tube saw is similar to that in the link below and used without the pilot drill.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Starrett-fas ... wn7pj1SbVw


DAVIDMCCULLOUGH
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby DAVIDMCCULLOUGH » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:45 pm

I believe Richard welded a bar to some old plugs and hung his engine for for some months before it gave way!!!

Look for 'Plus Gas' and apply down all the stud holes (becoming hard to find, last lot I got off Amazon)

Is there any space yet to tap in wooden wedges?

Sometimes a sideways knock from a rubber mallet can help

The centre studs go down into the water way and will be a pig to shift, even with heat. Good news is though they are metric threads.

Good luck!


Too many Minors so little time.....

smithskids
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby smithskids » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:08 pm

Yes Plus Gas or diesel down the studs and patience could be a couple of weeks and keep the studs wet, top up every day. Steel fox wedges help. Hanging up is good as well.

peteatreat
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby peteatreat » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:43 am

Thank you all for your suggestions.
The engine has only been hanging for a week and so far there does not seem to be any movement so as to get wedges in. Based on Richards experience, it may be a good while longer to wait!
Over the months, plenty of penetrating liquid had been applied together heat which as you can see, has had varying results.
As mentioned, these heads are hard to find so still want to go gently if I can.
If no luck with the hanging option, is there the possibility of having the studs drilled out? If so, is there a major consequence to this?
Any further suggestions will be appreciated.
Thank you.
Pete

Bowie69
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby Bowie69 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:13 pm

Citric or oxalic acid ( both available on eBay) are great at removing rust without harming the underlying metal.

You could build a dam round the studs and fill with acid solution and leave to work.

ian.mcdougall
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby ian.mcdougall » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:10 pm

Did i once read on here to put 1 and 2 piston at bottom of stroke and feed in rope to fill cylinder ( use same amount of rope in each cylinder ) and turn crank to see if it will shift head ,can't see any dangers with this method but can't be held responsible for any mishaps. :oops:


DAVIDMCCULLOUGH
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby DAVIDMCCULLOUGH » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:49 pm

Ian, I think I recall BMCecosse recommending that approach, it may help but Id use it as a last resort, sidevalve pistons are about £400 a set these days! :o

Im currently building a sidevalve engine for my tourer, new rings and shells cost almost £250........ Better be a flying machine!
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Too many Minors so little time.....

RobThomas
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby RobThomas » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:21 pm

If you get really stuck...I'm a licenced Gunpowder manufacturer, amongst other things.


1/2 kg of fine grain Black Powder? That'll shift it. :D
Cardiff, UK

peteatreat
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby peteatreat » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:10 pm

Rob, the way things are going, I may well be in touch! 😂
Pete

RobThomas
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby RobThomas » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:19 pm

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Threaded into spark plug hole and then the plate rests on top of the head studs. Tightening the threads above the plugs pulls the head up. Got enough head studs left???
Cardiff, UK

peteatreat
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby peteatreat » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:41 am

Rob
Thank you for your suggestion and photo.

We have considered this but my engineer pal was a little concerned that there might be a collar attached around the spark plug holes and the force of this procedure might damage it.

I have indicated on the image below.

Do you think it would be ok to try?

Thanks again.

Pete.
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RobThomas
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby RobThomas » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:22 pm

Looks like normal machining for a flat plug seat, to me. Are they all like that? Could be a Timesert insert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjDQJtWFc8

Worth cleaning it up with a screwdriver since it looks like goop and paint on it at the moment.

If it hasn't shifted by now I'd start getting more aggressive. Drilling out the shaft of the studs is great if you can drill them straight and then some sideways hammering with a soft mallet? The 'lifter' device might also work.
Cardiff, UK

DAVIDMCCULLOUGH
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby DAVIDMCCULLOUGH » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:47 am

Any progress on the head?


Too many Minors so little time.....

peteatreat
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby peteatreat » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:50 pm

Hi David
Thanks for enquiring.
The hanging method has not worked so I am still no further forward. It is very frustrating!
I am still nervous at being too aggressive as I really do not want to damage the head. I will have a chat with the engineer who kindly offered to help to see what we could do next. I think drilling the studs out might be the only way forward now and I will probably need to get a specialist to tackle it. What do you think and do you have any ideas?
Thanks again, it is appreciated.
Cheers

DAVIDMCCULLOUGH
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby DAVIDMCCULLOUGH » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:30 pm

Id have another go with a wooden block and a mallet on the side of the head while its hanging, obviously not too far off the bench or floor!!! Perhaps even mallets used on both sides of the head at once.


Too many Minors so little time.....

peteatreat
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby peteatreat » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:42 pm

It has been a while since my last post. The head is finally off! Seven of the studs required drilling out and the head was removed without any damage. This has revealed the gasket blown around three cylinders and one valve requiring work. The rest seem ok so I have been told. Yet to see the engine myself.
It has been recommended that I fit a small water pump down low by the rad to help with the flow of coolant. I know it will not be an original feature but understand I will be able to remove it, if required, quite easily.
Has anyone fitted this and if so, could I have your thoughts and any recommendations as to which one to get. Thank you.
Pete

philthehill
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby philthehill » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:46 pm

Well done in getting the head off.

My Minor is fitted with a Davies Craig electric water pump with thermostat iccontrol.

They can be obtained in at least two sizes. I have the large size.

It works well and you wont do better. Not cheap though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Davies-Craig ... SwsFVayjYZ
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RobThomas
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Re: Sidevalve head removal issues. Help!

Postby RobThomas » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:43 am

BMW 7-series pumps are an option.

Like this...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E65-E66- ... 0005.m1851
Cardiff, UK


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