Affected by Fallen Trees

[Kevin]

Well I hope no one suffers any mishaps during this weather, near to where I work a five trees have come down in different places, another has just fallen on the railway embankment just opposite our office, 2 people have had to nip of as fences have come down causing problems, and we are in an urban area so if you live out in the sticks I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

[Judge]

Just found my shed roof in the neighbours garden

[mal]

At least you can now go out and water your lawn Kevin I saw on the lunchtime news that the hosepipe ban had been lifted some parts of the country can't even see their lawns for the floods, as one of the morning papers showed two men in a rowing boat rowing across a playing field Strange country we live in

Mal

[chickenjohn]

Yes, hosepipe ban is now liften in Kent, at last. Finally we've got enough rain to make up for the 70% of our water that seeps through the leaky pipework in the SE of England! I can at last give the Traveller a proper wash- it might look a little like it does in the sig pic again.

[Kevin]

At least you can now go out and water your lawn Kevin

I have just checked Mal and you are right as I had only heard about Thames Water and we are Three Valleys, although if this weather keeps up we will need some Beavers to help clear the trees

[Furrtiv]

Well it took me two hours to travel the distance home from work tonight (usually a distance of fifteen-odd miles and takes about forty minutes) - the M69 was closed completely because a farm had landed on it! And the A47 was partially closed due to fallen trees, one of Leicester's two Holiday Inns has had its rooh blown off, and all the traffic was piling onto the B roads so I was in the Peugeot in second gear for most of the way home.

[JimK]

the M69 was closed completely because a farm had landed on it!

I don't think this is Kansas, Toto...

[mal]

We've got snow up here but only on the higher ground, don't think I'll be up on the moors for a few days It's still very windy and wet but I'm glad we are getting some snow at last... I say.. get it out the way now before the show season starts in April

Mal

[alex_holden]

I wound up catching a different bus home that went via a long detour around a road that was closed because a factory roof had landed in the middle of it.

[plastic_orange]

Rant - with all the talk about road safety, why don't they remove trees adjacent to roads. I've seen more folk killed by hitting a tree than any other fatality in RTA's.
Makes it worse when they actually attack you on the road as witnessed yesterday - landowners should be made liable.

rant over.

Pete

[JimK]

Rant - with all the talk about road safety, why don't they remove trees adjacent to roads.

Because the trees aren't on the roads, and if you stay on the road you won't hit a tree. I really don't like changing the environment just for our convenience, and big old trees are wonderful things. I guarantee that if mature trees are removed from roadsides then they won't all be replaced somewhere else.

I've seen more folk killed by hitting a tree than any other fatality in RTA's.

I never understood why this happens. They're big enough to see and not actually planted in the road, so why hit them? Stay on the tarmac and in normal weather you'll be absolutely fine.

Makes it worse when they actually attack you on the road as witnessed yesterday - landowners should be made liable.

Landowners should be liable for somebody driving in windy weather without looking out for trees? Not convinced. I think drivers should be responsible for their own actions. If you drive past a tree in a howling gale following heavy rain, then it's entirely reasonable to drive slower and watch out for swaying trees.

I feel desperately sorry for the family and friends of the Birmingham Airport chief, but to say that somebody else should be liable for that accident? No. Police advised motorists to stay at home, and he chose to drive down a tree-lined road during windy weather. His risk, his accident.

[plastic_orange]

Jim, You've obviously never experienced the effect of car and tree. If I can advise anyone of what not to hit - it is a tree. You are obviously lucky not to have hit, or been hit when driving - but unfortunately it does happen, and if the effect can be mitigated then it should be.
There are also too many dodgy trees around as well, coupled with the effect of rain and wind, the inevitable happens and an innocent is hurt when it falls - and we are not all tree surgeons who can recognise imminent collapse.
It's easier said than done to stay at home - but we have to get on with essential tasks even if it is nicer to stay warm indoors.
It's an easy option for Police to give a blanket warning, but in the space of a few miles the weather can be totally different (well up here anyway), and folk make their own mind up.

Pete

[JimK]

Jim, You've obviously never experienced the effect of car and tree. If I can advise anyone of what not to hit - it is a tree. You are obviously lucky not to have hit, or been hit when driving - but unfortunately it does happen, and if the effect can be mitigated then it should be.

I've been in a motorway crash, not involving trees. That was fairly and squarely caused by bad observation, largely resulting from inexperience (I was a passenger). Trees are much bigger and heavier than cars, I know.
I seem to remember that you are/were a fireman? So you've had to pick up the remains, something that I've not had to do. I can see that you would want to do anything to stop that.

But I would argue that effort would be better spent teaching people to stay on the blacktop rather than making it more likely that they get away with being daft. Make the road users safer instead of trying to bubble-wrap the road environment. When I was in Preston (Lancs) the police took along photos of these sort of crashes to the local cruise (with relatives' permission) to show the MaxPower-brigade why they should take it easy.

I really don't like the efforts being made to make the world safe for the clueless. Surely it's possible for someone to think "If I drive off the road it's likely to go badly." This protect-idiots-from-themselves is also responsible for the "May contain nuts" warning on a walnut cake, and it annoys me.

There are also too many dodgy trees around as well, coupled with the effect of rain and wind, the inevitable happens and an innocent is hurt when it falls - and we are not all tree surgeons who can recognise imminent collapse.

I take your point, and trees that are dead, diseased or otherwise in danger of collapse are routinely removed, but the only signs of callapse I was talking about was a tree swaying wildly or actually starting to fall over. On the way home last night I drove slow enough that if a tree started to fall over in front of me I could stop before I got to it.

It's easier said than done to stay at home - but we have to get on with essential tasks even if it is nicer to stay warm indoors.

Indeed. I went to the pub

It's an easy option for Police to give a blanket warning, but in the space of a few miles the weather can be totally different (well up here anyway), and folk make their own mind up.

True, true. It's been very varied here, too. On the open forest it's been howling, but drop a few feet off the edge of the plataeu and it calms down a lot.

[plastic_orange]

I'm perhaps cynical in thinking that education doesn't really work, and we have to protect people from themselves. I happen to live near Dundee which has the highest underage pregnancy rate in the country, and despite the millions poured into the problem, it still exists. Likewise the smoking issue, drink driving etc etc.
I do agree that driving standards are getting worse all the time (a couple of days spent driving a Minor may be good for them), but all we hear about is 'speed kills' which has proved not to be the main cause of accidents - poor driving/observation is.
The dedicated Traffic Police in most forces is no more - relying on revenue gatherers and cctv instead, so poor driving goes unnoticed - time for a rethink methinks!!!
Back on the Tree issue - a simple blowout, animal on the road, icy patch etc can send you into one, and as I've said you will come off second best.
One of my last fatal RTA's was to a female who was travelling at night to an appointment, her car left the road due to 'farmers mud/greasy road' (another rant for the future ) and her car hit a tree side on - guess what happened to her head?
Was this her fault? - result - family destroyed and a few Firefighters/Police/Ambulance staff pretty upset too.


On the positive side, It's not windy today.

Pete

[JimK]

I'm perhaps cynical in thinking that education doesn't really work, and we have to protect people from themselves. I happen to live near Dundee which has the highest underage pregnancy rate in the country, and despite the millions poured into the problem, it still exists. Likewise the smoking issue, drink driving etc etc.

Idiots are always idiots, perhaps?

I do agree that driving standards are getting worse all the time (a couple of days spent driving a Minor may be good for them), but all we hear about is 'speed kills' which has proved not to be the main cause of accidents - poor driving/observation is.
The dedicated Traffic Police in most forces is no more - relying on revenue gatherers and cctv instead, so poor driving goes unnoticed - time for a rethink methinks!!!

That monomania about speed is really irritating. I told a local copper recently that the message I got was that it's more important to watch your speedo than the road, and he felt the same way.

Back on the Tree issue - a simple blowout, animal on the road, icy patch etc can send you into one, and as I've said you will come off second best.

Sometimes these things happen, that is true. I also think that when somebody says "there was nothing I could do" they are wrong the majority of the time. Clean, correctly inflated tyres go bang one in hundreds of millions. Never swerve for any animal smaller than a sheep (dogs, cats, rabbits). How many people drive so they can stop within the visible road?

One of my last fatal RTA's was to a female who was travelling at night to an appointment, her car left the road due to 'farmers mud/greasy road' (another rant for the future ) and her car hit a tree side on - guess what happened to her head?

Not good. I'm with you on the muddy road thing - Farmers have been held liable before as it's completely under their control. They can buy reflective warning signs so people know. Actually, a lot of farmers do.
Diesel spilling from badly-maintained commercials is another bugbear of mine.

Was this her fault? - result - family destroyed and a few Firefighters/Police/Ambulance staff pretty upset too.

Partly. If you're driving past a farm or a field entrance, or even just on rural roads, then the possibility of mud should be something you think about. Farmer should have posted warnings, too. Doesn't mean the tree should be removed because two people made mistakes.

That probably sounds harsh, but many people don't treat cars with anything like enough respect and caution. I don't know to fix that.

I feel for the emergency crews, I really do. My dad is a community first responder and as part of running St.John Lancashire also does stints as a paramedic.

[chickenjohn]

Lets not chop the trees down! I like trees.

[Chadbrook]

Well if a car is going fast enough to leave the road what would stop it if the tree wasnt there ?... should we fill in ditches too ? (I love aquaplaining)... maybe just extend the tarmack from hedge to hedge and ban pedestrians ?... or maybe it would be better if people were taught to handle the car of their choice properly with due consideration to its power, the road they happen to be on and other road users... oh and the people who have to dispose of the wreckage.

Another alternative .... we could install speed camera's in place of all the trees then at least the accedent would benifit other road users by destroying the camera

[paulk]

While i'm sympatheitic to Plastics view (I am certain I couldn't scrape up what you've no doubt had to). It does beg the question How far would you have to go?

This week I gave a lift to a guy who had just spun out into a tree. He maintained it was the other guys fault (which I don't know for sure) but if he was doing say 40mph(highly likely on that road if not more), how much run off would we need to give on a corner. 50ft? 75ft?

THis was only a small country road, white lined and wide enough for two lanes but if you opened up the verges to 50ft each side that would be 130ft swathe of land for a B road.

The amount of land affected would be incredible.

THere are some trees though that are just silly places. I can think of 2 in the forest that are on 90 degree corners at the end of long straights and always have dents in them.