spur socket

[les]

Would be grateful for some guidance please. I understand that an outside waterproof socket cannot be run from a spur off of a ring main. This being the case, is there a way of identifying, by a test, a spurred socket? Apart from looking inside. I know that would be the favourite solution but the socket in question is tucked away deep under a worktop and not easy to get into!

[Trickydicky]

If it is a spur then it will only have one cable feeding it, if it is on a ring main it will have two cables feeding it. If the cable is buried in the wall the only way to check is to remove the front.

[les]

Thanks, thought there might be no alternative to removing the front.

[les]

Just occurred to me, if there are 2 cables, how can I be sure it's not a spur feeding a spur, rather than part of the ring?

[chuffit]

if its part of a ring main and you separate the ends both sets of wires will have a live .

[Trickydicky]

that did occur to me when I replied Les, The only way to check would be to disconnect one of the cables and then check which sockets are still working either side, that will prove if it is a spur or a ring main.
For safety you should not spur from a spur or have more than one spur on a ring main.

[jimbob60]

Hi

You can have as many spurs of spurs as you like, as long as the feed for each spur comes off the fused side of the previous spur. This is because if load at the end of the fused spurs is to great all that will happen is the fuse inside the spur will blow.
Hope that helps.

[les]

Yes thanks for all your help, although on reflection I am considering running the outside socket to a separate way in the consumer unit. will mean a new cable run but convincing myself it might be better.

[M25VAN]

What about something like this Les?
[frame][/frame]
Would save running a new circuit or worrying about the electrical installation that you currently have. I guess it will in effect though give you a spur off of a spur (if that is what you have).

[blues2rock]

Couple of thoughts.....outside socket must be protected by 30ma rcd.

If your wiring is recent it may not have sockets wired as a 'ring' in 2.5 mm cable, lots of newer properties have 4 mm 'radial' circuits.

Any 'new' circuit requires Building Regs approval or be 'signed off' by an authorised electrician. (yes I would just do it as well but it is bet to know what the rules are so you can decide the best way to break them). Only times I could see the lack of approval being a problem is if you get it wrong and electrocute yourself or someone else........or when you come to sell the property and the purchaser or their surveyor notices the addition.

The idea by M25van looks to be a simple and safe solution.

[les]

Yes I did see that idea at b&q today, ( thanks m25) unfortunately after I had purchased a single outdoor socket! Although I am quite prepared to ditch it and buy the type mentioned if necessary. I wonder if the plug with the built in rcd is something I could buy separately, then I could continue to use the single one I have already fixed to the outside wall
The circuit is definitely a ring main in 2.5 twin and earth. I have a old type consumer unit (fuse type) with an updated unit wired in and fitted above it. I presume the unit above will give the ring protection, and in turn protect the outside socket spurred from this ring?

[M25VAN]

I think these outdoor socket kits came out at the time you had to have electrical work checked out as a way of getting round the regulations. As they are still being sold I presume they are still ok to use. The one shown is £27 from Toolstation but I'm sure you can get elsewhere as well. I have seen the wire in type RCD breaker that you could use or just use a plug in type with a plug on the end of your external socket.
Just seen Toolstation do the wire in type for £8. http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p99372[ ... 01499_4592[/img][/frame]
What we need is a good old sparky to let us know if this setup is OK and won't cause problems if it trips out. Interested to know as I may use the same setup myself.

[Trickydicky]

Les, If you spur from the downstairs ring main, you will get RCD protection on the spurred socket.

[les]

Thanks again to you both, for your time and trouble finding this info for me. I now just need to be sure the socket I plug into is on the ring rather than from a spur.

[bmcecosse]

I thought in England you weren't allowed to do 'home electrician' work ??? Not so in Scotland (yet) - although with the new low Drink/Drive limit - we won't be allowed to drink alcohol any more....... Not that I support Drink Driving - far from it - but the new limit is so low that no drinking will be possible the night before if driving in the morning..... beware any of you venturing north of the border......

[bigjim]

regs are 1 spur socket and 1 fused spur off of any point on a ring main, any point is another socket or even a junction box , all outside sockets must be fed by a 30ma rcd like you have as an addition , your only problem is identifying where you are coming off of the ring

[les]

I think I maybe coming off a spur but the rcd/plug on the other end of the outside socket is fused, so would be a fused spur off of a spur? It has been suggested that my set up is similar to using an extension lead. One would then assume coming from a spur is ok. The outside socket is not hard wired but cabled the same as the kits available. Thanks for your input.