Douglas Horse Trams

[fezwig]

Hi All, Last Thursday Douglas Council released a statement that the horse trams would close as of now, just short of it's 140th anniversary . A petition has been launched please see the following link to the fiends of the horse trams https://sites.google.com/site/friendsof ... rams/home/

[les]

Sorry I'm not in favour of a horse pulling a tram, let alone loaded with a load of people. It's not on in this day and age! I'll sign a petition for the council!

[SteveClem]

Weren't some horses bred specifically to pull trams/ barges/ ploughs etc? If they are well treated I can't see the problem.

[ASL642]

These are rare breed horses. Without something to do these breeds will die out as no one will have a use for them. So long as they're properly cared for etc this is the kind of work they were bred for.

[SteveClem]

That was my impression Lou,not my field of expertise but I love seeing these big beautiful animals doing what they love doing. Well, they seem to love working.... 10 yrs ago I liked physical work too.

[les]

I doubt they 'love' tramping back and forth along the same old path, 'bred' for it or not. We owe more that most care to recall to all manner of species. Take the seven plus million horses that we took to their death world wide during the First World War, for example, and they continue to suffer varying degrees of abuse today in one way or another. Now we have mechanical and other inventions, it's about time we repaid that debt. However back to the original debate. It would be nice to think this sort of thing for entertainment was generally accepted as wrong. I acknowledge previous posters have indicated regard for the horses general treatment. Ok I've said my piece.

[irmscher]

I agree with Les what life does the horse have and at the end of the day it stays in a stable at the terminus .The only reason the horse is there is for public entertainment and at the end of its working day it doesn't even get a field.Warhorse is a good film to watch on tv

[ferret76]

So...should horse racing also be banned?

[SteveClem]

When we owned holiday cottages a family came to stay, and very nice they were too. One member of the party (of 16) was a committed vegan/treehugger. She was appalled that we were surrounded by a dairy farm and that the usual country routine went on. She spent 3 days in her room with the curtains shut and did a lot of crying.
Now the family knew that it was a working farm. They understood that the cows ( and the neighbouring sheep) only existed because of the way that most people choose to eat.
My point is that people are free to make lifestyle choices but we live in free democratic society, thank goodness, and that if one has a problem with any aspect of it just avoid the bits that you don't like
I never did understand why the family brought a vegan to a traditional farm..
Oh,and the farm kept very well cared for ploughing horses for competitions. Their manure was great for the garden.

[philthehill]

When my grandfather had the farm and everything was done by horsepower the most valuable thing on the farm was the Shire Horse.
Without the horse nothing could be done.
I grew up with working horses and horses do like human interaction.
There are still a lot of tasks that can only be done with the power of a Clydesdale i.e. dragging out timber where a logging tractor cannot go especially so in preserved woodlands.
But everyone is entitled to their opinion as to the pros and cons of using horses in this day and age.
As regards horse manure - best to leave it rot for a year or so otherwise it will burn the young plants.

Phil

[irmscher]

Phil I agree with working horses and there are still a few that work Clydesdales .The horses get to go in a field not tethered in a stable and doing something they love.One of the best things for roses is hair from the barbers buried around them

[sid]

i'm sure' working horses' would rather be working than ending up as dog meat.are there any working dray horses still about? my friend who's a Veggie always moans about people eating meat as she's an animal lover,but i try to tell her if we all became Veggies there would be no animals in the fields..just a few left in zoo's..which she refuses to visit anyway

[viewsonic1]

When we visited France a few years ago, my sister-in-law saw an 'A' board outside a restaurant offering "Cheval" and decided to try it, until I pointed out it was horse meat......

[SteveClem]

Tastes ok actually. Ate it by mistake years ago and thought it was venison with French seasoning. Suppose when you think about it,if you are a meat eater ethically there's no difference between beef,lamb horse,cat etc.

[MarkyB]

I've knowingly eaten horse and it's fine, like beef but a bit sweeter.
I'd draw the line at eating cat or any other carnivore for that matter!

[olderisbetter]

After the meat scandal recently i think many people have eaten horse meat in pies and all sorts of low cost or junk food, some cheap meat outlets were selling horse meat as beef, most people would never know but i think when you are offered a leg of lamb four feet long things have gone very wrong.

[qwerty165]

if we all became Veggies there would be no animals in the fields..just a few left in zoo's..which

This is completly true, the best way to save our rare breed livestock is to eat more of them for once there is a demand the supply needs to increase. Back to the horses though people need to stop putting human emotions onto animals and understand them for what they are; personally they are better company than most people these days.

[les]

Are you for real?

[SteveClem]

Read in the Sunday Times that there may be a way of keeping the horse trams going. Jolly good!

[MikeNash]

Ah Fezwig!

A trip down memory lane there. In the early 1960s I was my cousin's mechanic for his Manx 350 & 500 (bikes to you ignorants) at the Manx Grand Prix and the horse tram was a regular conveyance for us. And it had one great advantage - to get it to stop outside our digs all we had to do was to hold out sugar knobs for old hay burners and it would stop on the spot regardless whatever the driver said or did. Ah! what rebels we were - but that's the 60s for yer.

Les,
Regarding your concerns about the ethics of horse propulsion see here; http://www.britishpathe.com/video/shunting-horse
It's 1967 and old Charlie is in action, one of British Rail's last pair of shunting horses. (I hope they didn't just send him off for dog meat when he retired.)

It's said that in the 1920s almost 20,000 horses were used for shunting and seeing Charlie pull the carriage I think you'll understand the very low friction that there is between steel wheels and a steel track. That, after all, is the whole point of a rail road.
Regards, MikeN.