This Europe referendum malarkey

[amgrave]

So far the stay in side have put most of their arguments as scares, prices will rise, house prices will drop, jobs will be lost, our security will suffer etc. That makes me very suspicious of their true reasons for wanting to stay in and I suspect that as usual it boils down to money. Most of the out's just happen to be large businesses or people connected to money institutions and MPs that we know will lose out financially if we leave. It pains me to think a lot of people out there do not think as a nation we could not survive on our own, I assume that means for them the Great has gone out of Britain. I think this would be a good opportunity to put the Great back on the front of our countries name and show the world too. We are better than the stay in's make us out to be. I have a feeling that as most people today are money mad we will be staying in as they will fear losing some of it and the youngsters won't have the history to make an informed decision unlike us old uns.

[Blaketon]

I speak too bluntly to be a politician!

Someone, who works in mental health, told me that serial killers share similar psychological traits to politicians. He said that serial killers are often very "Pleasant" on the surface, though insincere and glib. It sounds a bit of an oversimplification to me but then I don't work in that field.

On one of the few times (Maybe the only time) I watched Question Time, Sir Jackie Stewart was on it and that's why I watched it. I don't recall what the first question was but it was political. Jackie Stewart gave the first answer and said that politics is a matter of perception, rather than substance. I thought it was great answer. It's basically marketing and a lot of marketing works when two things come together; the first smells and the second is stupidity. Just think of car adverts. They say nothing of any consequence; it's all some vague, skin deep idea of an image (Like people shaking their rear ends at the camera....was it really a car for ****holes?). Does Victoria Beckham really help to design Range Rovers and if so, is that really a reason to buy one. They're both dead now but I'd have more confidence in the work of Colin Chapman or Sir Alec Issigonis!!!

[woodiesenfrance]

If you can vote, think yourself lucky.
I and many other British citizens resident in Europe can't vote, even if we draw pensions or other income from the UK or own property there. We are barred because we left the UK's electoral rolls more than 15 years ago.
EU citizens resident in the UK can't vote either, however long they have lived and worked there unless they have obtained British nationality.
For many pensioner Brits living abroad in the EU it's a worrying time, not a jokey time.
For those of us working here it's less worrying, for now.... but....
I'm not telling you how to vote, just to think seriously, amongst other things, about what you are doing for the next generation, who perhaps won't have the freedom to move around to study, work or retire.
It's no malarkey.

[les]

Some might say, you can't have your cake and eat it.

[woodiesenfrance]

These people can vote :
British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK
UK nationals living abroad who have been on the electoral register in the UK in the past 15 years.
Members of the House of Lords
Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will be eligible, unlike in a general election.

So an Aussie working in a bar in London for a couple of years can vote, but someone who fought in WW2, worked all his life in the UK and draws his pension from the UK and happens now to be cared for by his daughter in France can't vote.

Cake for some but not for others.

[les]

We've all got a point of view on these sort of things, mine is where do you draw the line.

[Boomlander]

We've all got a point of view on these sort of things, mine is where do you draw the line.

Sounds about right to me!

[john newton]

recall all the rubbish thrown at us by e.u. since inception, first r/dum falsified ? promises, lies, obfuscation, and then imagine what would be thrown at us in the future..frigjhtening. re.john

[POMMReg]

recall all the rubbish thrown at us by e.u. since inception, first r/dum falsified ? promises, lies, obfuscation, and then imagine what would be thrown at us in the future..frigjhtening. re.john

We're treated like mushrooms....kept in the dark and fed s**t!

[amgrave]

recall all the rubbish thrown at us by e.u. since inception, first r/dum falsified ? promises, lies, obfuscation, and then imagine what would be thrown at us in the future..frigjhtening. re.john

We're treated like mushrooms....kept in the dark and fed s**t!

And that won't change if we stay in or leave

[SteveClem]

Is it just me,or are the dire warnings from the 'remain' side starting to sound a bit ridiculous?

[les]

They know the exact number of people who will lose their job

[POMMReg]

Blair didn't bother with EU/UN when he decided to invade Iraq - never question how many billions were spent on this illegal act - easier for the little people to blame the migrants and unemployed....

Whole system is corrupt!!

[john newton]

most of our big guns in politics have been educated through a LEFT WING charity called common purpose check them out on U.K. column. including right wing politicos. knowing that 99 per cent of e.u. is left wing we know that they all nod to carl marx,trotsky, etc and any other hammer and sycle carrier..wake up. re john.

[Nickol]

Because most of us are so ignorant on such matters we tend to give judgement on our gut feelings. Now if you see the rightousness of the EU as I do, it is most unlikely that any argument to the contrary will sway this gut feeling even though I have made a conscious effort to determine as much factual Information as may be gleaned from various sources. Conversely, those vehemently opposed, probably equally badly informed (or confused by the conflicting arguments) will also not be swayed from their convictions.

The general tendency in Europe ( and perhaps in the west generally) towards the right wing political spektrum must be based on something. The EU is a very convenient scapegoat when things do not live up to expectency and euro sceptics are prevalent in every Country. The trouble with such nationalism or as the late Helmut Schmidt put it " national egoism" is that each Group wants to have all the avantages but not share the pifalls. When I read comments here and elsewhere using the pronoun of "we" , I am reminded of Helmut Schmidt's remarks in as much that the "we" refers to, in this case England...or is it UK or perhaps GB or even perhaps only Yorkshire or maybe only Leeds ?? If the " we " were to refer to the "europeans" then it may have a more poignant meaning but no doubt the national egoism will prevail.

Sad as it may be, should Leeds, Yorkshire, England, GB or whoever "we" is decide to leave the Club then in the words of a German General in 1918, better it all ending in Terror than a Terror without end.

This then brings me on to the the British Referendum. I wonder for whose benefit the referendum is?

[les]

Different countries have different ways, that's just how it is. They have developed over time and some like it that way.

[sid]

spot on les..i like the way England is..or rather was,up until recent times.

[midget]

At the end of the day, it boils down to the DEMOCRACY.
If you are content with an unelected, self appointed group of "Commissioners" to continue to appoint themselves and are happy to be without any method of ever changing this--then vote Remain.
At least with our current (bastardized) version of democracy we can "choose" an alternative every 5 years, some thing you can NEVER achieve within the EU.
Vote LEAVE.

[SteveClem]

Our postal voting forms arrived today. So it's 'make up your mind time '
I'll give it another few days.

[Nickol]

At the end of the day, it boils down to the DEMOCRACY.
If you are content with an unelected, self appointed group of "Commissioners" to continue to appoint themselves and are happy to be without any method of ever changing this--then vote Remain.
At least with our current (bastardized) version of democracy we can "choose" an alternative every 5 years, some thing you can NEVER achieve within the EU.
Vote LEAVE.

Total poppycock and typical of the uninformed propoganda being issued by both sides of the equation. Certainly there are commissioners who make recommendations but these are endorsed by the euro parliamen that is more representaive than any "first past the post System". You are confusing the influence of the lobbists within certain departments upon the commissioners where, incidentally the anglo-american influence is particulary strong.

There are some quite logical arguments for wanting to leave the EU, but that is not one of them.

An alternative every 5 years? In England there appears to be a choice of only two - what Kind of choice is that?