Hi All, Not sure If I am putting this in the right place? Just thought this might interest a few folk.
http://www.fastmarinamagazine.com/viewt ... =13&t=2907
Using Clio Brakes on a Marina set up
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MartinB
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Re: Using Clio Brakes on a Marina set up
Seems a bit of a contradiction to me!Jefftav wrote:fastmarinamagazine
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Jefftav
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This isn't mine, I am just passing the information on so don't shoot the messenger 
You really need to log onto the Fast Marina web site to get the full story. I think this lad was looking for something better for his Marina based kit car he obviously has more time than money.
Here is an update and good news.
OK I went off to my breakers yard and got myself a pair of Renault Clio sliding calipers. The same caliper is used on two different sized discs and that gives you a choice, see later.
I chose these calipers as they have a built on offset (see the photo above) they should be easily mounted, much in the same manner as the standard Marina.
As I wanted to fit everything in a 13" wheel I went for a 13" wheeled Clio that had a 239mm disc. The calipers were then cleaned up (see other thread on cleaning and de rusting) and new seals fitted. The Marina disc is 247mm and it was obvious from the outset that space was going to be dificult to find but as nothing lined up easily and it looked hopeful I went out and bought some Clio 239mm discs and pads from ebay. I had them bored to suit the Marina hub and to reduce costs I drilled the four hub fixing bolts in each through the disc myself, the metal thickness is too thin to reliably tap so I will be fitting new, longer HT bolts and placing nuts on the inside to make sure the disc does not part company with the hub.
The overall thickness dimension of the Clio disc is less than the Marina disc, but with a different caliper arrangement the caliper bracket, 3mm needs shaving off the existing bosses, thus moving the caliper assy outboard. I was wary of doing this as it reduced thread length but when I examined my Marina caliper bracket they had a short section inside the hole that was unthreaded, presumably to aid alignment. Then came a pleasant surprise and a problem.
I knew that the fixings were similar but not that similar. Not only were the caliper fixing bolts the same pitch from Marina to Clio but the caliper was also perfectly fitted on the disc. What a result, the Marina caliper bracket could be modified only marginally, not a complete new one made.
The The Clio caliper bracket was held on by two M12 1.25 bolts, the Marina by 7/16" Fine bolts. Unlike Marinacoupe who did his Princess caliper mod, I decided to retap the bracket as there looked to be plenty of meat available. If it looks a bit dodgy on final assy I will have the bosses removed from the Marina bracket and longer ones welded in place. I had a M12 1.25 tap in my collection, but you should easily get one for less than £10.00.
So now it's option time. Mark 1 and 2 Clios came in lots of flavours with 239mm Solid discs, 239mm Vented discs and 259mm Vented discs. There were other Clio versions including the Williams and a couple of high powered cars, I did not venture into looking at these as I wanted a volume car part to keep costs down. On the standard cars the caliper and brake pads stay the same only the carrier changes. So if you fancy vented discs on a 14" wheel, follow my lead but search out the caliper assys and carriers from the bigger disc models.
All I need to do now is to bolt an assy onto the car and then check for obstructions and finally find a hydraulic hose to fit.
Where I started from. I liked the look of this offset carrier as it looked as though it would fit a Marina.
A couple of comparative pics of the Marina Type 14 and the Clio Caliper
The comparative size of the brake pads
And the surprisingly close fit the Clio pad is to the Marina bracket
And this is the complete Clio caliper assy temporarily bolted to a Marina bracket. The Marina uses 7/16" bolts the Clio M12 1.25, so as everything lined up I retapped the bracket to suit the Clio.
The two bosses on the bracket are about 3mm too high. I redeuced their overall height to 11.5mm in order to center the carrier around the disc.
These are the two different sized Clio carriers that will allow 239mm or 259mm discs using the same basic caliper
The holes drilled in the Clio disc, shown from inside the disc with the screws visible holding the Marina hub in place. Longer bolts and locking nuts are needed.
With the carrier bolted to the thinned Marina bracket you can see how it all lines up quite nicely.
The carrier surrounds the disk with a similar clearance all round. It makes me wonder if it was designed to fit.
And finally the Clio caliper with a 239mm vented disc squeezed into a 13" wheel
So the work required is minimal, almost a parts swap.
Get and refurbish some Clio calipers, don't forget to salvage all the fixtures and fittings. It gives you a chance to strip re-seal and paint them a lovely caliper paint colour to suit your flavour. £20.00
Marina caliper bracket needs it bosses trimming by 3mm with a file, and the threads need retapping to M12 1.25
Clio discs need boring inside diameter and drilling 4 No 3/8" holes. Cost me abour £30 for a pair of discs and pads + £20 machining It needs to be right and balanced.
If you have a tame engineeing shop get them to machine the discs and to modify the brackets at the same time. If he charges more than £50.00 there is something wrong.
So far I have spent less than £100.00 and you could spend that on Marina brakes!
A new hydraulic hose needs fitting
Job done.
You really need to log onto the Fast Marina web site to get the full story. I think this lad was looking for something better for his Marina based kit car he obviously has more time than money.Here is an update and good news.
OK I went off to my breakers yard and got myself a pair of Renault Clio sliding calipers. The same caliper is used on two different sized discs and that gives you a choice, see later.
I chose these calipers as they have a built on offset (see the photo above) they should be easily mounted, much in the same manner as the standard Marina.
As I wanted to fit everything in a 13" wheel I went for a 13" wheeled Clio that had a 239mm disc. The calipers were then cleaned up (see other thread on cleaning and de rusting) and new seals fitted. The Marina disc is 247mm and it was obvious from the outset that space was going to be dificult to find but as nothing lined up easily and it looked hopeful I went out and bought some Clio 239mm discs and pads from ebay. I had them bored to suit the Marina hub and to reduce costs I drilled the four hub fixing bolts in each through the disc myself, the metal thickness is too thin to reliably tap so I will be fitting new, longer HT bolts and placing nuts on the inside to make sure the disc does not part company with the hub.
The overall thickness dimension of the Clio disc is less than the Marina disc, but with a different caliper arrangement the caliper bracket, 3mm needs shaving off the existing bosses, thus moving the caliper assy outboard. I was wary of doing this as it reduced thread length but when I examined my Marina caliper bracket they had a short section inside the hole that was unthreaded, presumably to aid alignment. Then came a pleasant surprise and a problem.
I knew that the fixings were similar but not that similar. Not only were the caliper fixing bolts the same pitch from Marina to Clio but the caliper was also perfectly fitted on the disc. What a result, the Marina caliper bracket could be modified only marginally, not a complete new one made.
The The Clio caliper bracket was held on by two M12 1.25 bolts, the Marina by 7/16" Fine bolts. Unlike Marinacoupe who did his Princess caliper mod, I decided to retap the bracket as there looked to be plenty of meat available. If it looks a bit dodgy on final assy I will have the bosses removed from the Marina bracket and longer ones welded in place. I had a M12 1.25 tap in my collection, but you should easily get one for less than £10.00.
So now it's option time. Mark 1 and 2 Clios came in lots of flavours with 239mm Solid discs, 239mm Vented discs and 259mm Vented discs. There were other Clio versions including the Williams and a couple of high powered cars, I did not venture into looking at these as I wanted a volume car part to keep costs down. On the standard cars the caliper and brake pads stay the same only the carrier changes. So if you fancy vented discs on a 14" wheel, follow my lead but search out the caliper assys and carriers from the bigger disc models.
All I need to do now is to bolt an assy onto the car and then check for obstructions and finally find a hydraulic hose to fit.
Where I started from. I liked the look of this offset carrier as it looked as though it would fit a Marina.
A couple of comparative pics of the Marina Type 14 and the Clio Caliper
The comparative size of the brake pads
And the surprisingly close fit the Clio pad is to the Marina bracket
And this is the complete Clio caliper assy temporarily bolted to a Marina bracket. The Marina uses 7/16" bolts the Clio M12 1.25, so as everything lined up I retapped the bracket to suit the Clio.
The two bosses on the bracket are about 3mm too high. I redeuced their overall height to 11.5mm in order to center the carrier around the disc.
These are the two different sized Clio carriers that will allow 239mm or 259mm discs using the same basic caliper
The holes drilled in the Clio disc, shown from inside the disc with the screws visible holding the Marina hub in place. Longer bolts and locking nuts are needed.
With the carrier bolted to the thinned Marina bracket you can see how it all lines up quite nicely.
The carrier surrounds the disk with a similar clearance all round. It makes me wonder if it was designed to fit.
And finally the Clio caliper with a 239mm vented disc squeezed into a 13" wheel
So the work required is minimal, almost a parts swap.
Get and refurbish some Clio calipers, don't forget to salvage all the fixtures and fittings. It gives you a chance to strip re-seal and paint them a lovely caliper paint colour to suit your flavour. £20.00
Marina caliper bracket needs it bosses trimming by 3mm with a file, and the threads need retapping to M12 1.25
Clio discs need boring inside diameter and drilling 4 No 3/8" holes. Cost me abour £30 for a pair of discs and pads + £20 machining It needs to be right and balanced.
If you have a tame engineeing shop get them to machine the discs and to modify the brackets at the same time. If he charges more than £50.00 there is something wrong.
So far I have spent less than £100.00 and you could spend that on Marina brakes!
A new hydraulic hose needs fitting
Job done.
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jiversteve
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- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:59 pm
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Clio brake mod
Actually its mine, and I did have too much time on my hands.
It actually worked out very nicely and I had not considered the possible use on a converted Minor, not knowing just how much of the standard Marina setup is used on your disc brake conversions.
The main reason I looked into this was because I had larger brakes on the rear after fitting a Sprint axle and wanted to keep a reasonable front/rear balance, without going dual circuit etc etc.
It's actally quite relevant to you guys esp as you will probably be buying new discs and doing a full service on the Marina calipers anyway. Only a small machining cost, and no special parts.
It's also a lot quicker and cheaper than any other Marina brake conversion I have ever seen.
Incidentally I also had too much time, and fitted a Type 9 gearbox to a Marina bellhouse. Have a look at www.5speedmarina.com.
Next stop shopuld be an Audi 2.0T engine, mated to the Type9. Now there is an engineering challenge.
It actually worked out very nicely and I had not considered the possible use on a converted Minor, not knowing just how much of the standard Marina setup is used on your disc brake conversions.
The main reason I looked into this was because I had larger brakes on the rear after fitting a Sprint axle and wanted to keep a reasonable front/rear balance, without going dual circuit etc etc.
It's actally quite relevant to you guys esp as you will probably be buying new discs and doing a full service on the Marina calipers anyway. Only a small machining cost, and no special parts.
It's also a lot quicker and cheaper than any other Marina brake conversion I have ever seen.
Incidentally I also had too much time, and fitted a Type 9 gearbox to a Marina bellhouse. Have a look at www.5speedmarina.com.
Next stop shopuld be an Audi 2.0T engine, mated to the Type9. Now there is an engineering challenge.
It's also a lot quicker and cheaper than any other Marina brake conversion I have ever seen.
Looks a neat conversion.
We designed a Ford based kit for the Marina which is very easy to fit, uses parts from the Ford parts bin and which can accept the std XR3 vented RS turbo vented and AP Racing 4 pots with Cosworth discs.
Audi engine sounds interesting, but don't use a std Type 9 box as it will not last, might be better with the T5 box.
Looks a neat conversion.
We designed a Ford based kit for the Marina which is very easy to fit, uses parts from the Ford parts bin and which can accept the std XR3 vented RS turbo vented and AP Racing 4 pots with Cosworth discs.
Audi engine sounds interesting, but don't use a std Type 9 box as it will not last, might be better with the T5 box.
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jiversteve
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Thanks for the compliments, most of it was luck.
I looked at the xr3 conversion and Princess calipers and other ideas.
If you read the Marina forum you will see where I started from.
As its a kit car, a lot lighter, I did not feel the need to go 4 pot but bigger pad area and vented disks even if they are 239mm diameter, smaller than the stock 247mm Marina I thought there would be a benefit.
The biggest criteria was to get it all inside my 13" alloys.
As it is so simple I did not see the purpose of selling it as a kit. Anyone who has access to a basic m/c shop services could have the parts machined in less than an hour so the whole assy is easily copied. Sorry if it steals some sales of your club parts.
The most expensive parts are the hydraulic hoses but stainless ones are quite bling and help the braking anyway so are a good investment.
I have a write up for this conversion that will be published in the Marina, Marlin and other kit car owners mags. Who would I send a copy to for your owners mag?
And finally. I had intended on tuning my 1.8TC engine nearer 150bhp so the Type 9 is a V6 unit out of a Capri, well able to take the higher power, hopefully the whole transmission assy will take nearer 200bhp from the Audi lump when I have finished.
I looked at the xr3 conversion and Princess calipers and other ideas.
If you read the Marina forum you will see where I started from.
As its a kit car, a lot lighter, I did not feel the need to go 4 pot but bigger pad area and vented disks even if they are 239mm diameter, smaller than the stock 247mm Marina I thought there would be a benefit.
The biggest criteria was to get it all inside my 13" alloys.
As it is so simple I did not see the purpose of selling it as a kit. Anyone who has access to a basic m/c shop services could have the parts machined in less than an hour so the whole assy is easily copied. Sorry if it steals some sales of your club parts.
The most expensive parts are the hydraulic hoses but stainless ones are quite bling and help the braking anyway so are a good investment.
I have a write up for this conversion that will be published in the Marina, Marlin and other kit car owners mags. Who would I send a copy to for your owners mag?
And finally. I had intended on tuning my 1.8TC engine nearer 150bhp so the Type 9 is a V6 unit out of a Capri, well able to take the higher power, hopefully the whole transmission assy will take nearer 200bhp from the Audi lump when I have finished.
I think you will find even the V6 type 9 marginal with the torque from the Audi engine. They are only rated to a conservative 180bhp and the 200plus lbs of torque the Audi unit will have will soon find the weakness.
Go for uprated internals.
It'll be good to see the progress of this project.
Do you have an indication of where to go once on the link you have posted
Go for uprated internals.
It'll be good to see the progress of this project.
Do you have an indication of where to go once on the link you have posted
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jiversteve
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http://www.fastmarinamagazine.com/viewt ... =13&t=2907
Should get you there, but would your club mag be interested?
Should get you there, but would your club mag be interested?
' Audi 2.0T engine, mated to the Type9' if your thinking of going this way then have a look on vwkd as the audi engines are retro fitted into lots of vw as are ford engines so this means there are lots of adapter plates available with ford engines in mind with vw gearbox mounts
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excuse me i'm new
excuse me i'm new
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MarkyB
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The full stop at the end of your link brakes it (intentional pun)http://www.5speedmarina.com/works.
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jiversteve
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jiversteve
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Yes tapers are the same. If you look at the pictures on the fastmarina forum you can see that a telescopic shock has been used to replace the lever arm.
It might be possible to do a similar mod to a Marina or Minor but uneconomic when a standard telescopic shock conversion kit can be used, with the oil taken out of the lever arm so it acts as a pivot only.
It might be possible to do a similar mod to a Marina or Minor but uneconomic when a standard telescopic shock conversion kit can be used, with the oil taken out of the lever arm so it acts as a pivot only.