1958 2 door, rolling resto

Let us all know what you are up to with your current restoration project. Get that Minor on the road!

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callyspoy
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1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:31 pm

Hello folks,
I have been posting stuff on the facebook page, but i find it pretty poor for starting a thread about my project, so easier to do it here. That and i keep coming back here from google searches when i need info, so may as well add my own!

The picture below is the car after i collected it. Well, after my wife cleaned the windows! It's actually a lot better than it looks. It has disc brakes, and a seized 1275 in it, which was the clincher for me buying it.
I had knee surgery 3 days before it arrived, so am hobbling about doing jobs that i can at the moment.
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So yeah, that was it.
I stripped the head off and found it to be a bit of a mess in cylinder 4. Still seized so decided it would be best to cut my losses and fit an engine my dad had from a few years ago.

So, my engine plan is now to have:
•948 rebored to 998, flat top pistons and appears to be a decked block (this was all that was provided by dad)
• 12G940 head. I will be pocketing the block too. I have done this twice before, once on a Mini, once on an old Minor
• Standars 1098 camshaft
• HS4 with a AAA and a K&N
• Ital twin downpipe into a very homemade exhaust system (already fitted, if it works, woo)
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So the engine should be ok hopefully. It appears to have a 4.55 diff still, so no idea what the car was/is doing with a 1275 engine! Ribbed case box fitted too.

Once the engine is built up i will get it in and it should be driveable. Brakes are stiff, but do work, so i hope to give them a good clean and a bleed and they should be cool.

So the exterior...all the panels actually look ok. It was hand painted black, which is peeling off and is generally pants. The original BL dark green is under there, poking out through the naff black. So long term i will get it all looking shiny and tidy, but my short term plans really focus on getting it roadworthy.
I will document it on here, looking through the build up of the engine and wiring (that was a bit of a mash up too 🤔🙄

As i can only do small jobs at the moment, i painted the number plate 😂
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myoldjalopy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby myoldjalopy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:30 am

Well done! Out of interest, how did you paint the numberplate? Did you mask off the letters or just paint the whole thing and then scrape the paint off the letters? I did mine a few years ago and it took ages to mask the letters off properly because of all the curves but they did look good in the end. 8)

callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:48 am

Hey, yes i masked it off. It has quite prominent pressings on the digits, so quite easy to mask and then used a stanlet blade to trim the excess. It's not perfect, clearly, but it one that fits the boot recess properly, so worth it.
I will at some point hopefully look at getting an age related plate. The original was sold in '88 and this rubbish plate put on it.

myoldjalopy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby myoldjalopy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:52 am

Thanks. Again, out of interest, getting an age-related plate - can you just pick any registration of a car that no longer exists, or is it more complicated than that?

palacebear
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby palacebear » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:01 am

Age-related plates are issued at random by the DVLA from a stock of previously unissued numbers which they hold. The current format is three numbers followed by three letters. The first letter of the group is usually U, X or Y under the current system.

Example: My Moggie (originally JMS 551) was re-registered 251 YUA when the original plate was transferred onto a Jaguar in 2012.

Most numbers carried by cars which no longer exist are cancelled off the system when the car in question is recorded as scrapped/exported etc.
Last edited by palacebear on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
1956 4-door called Max

myoldjalopy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby myoldjalopy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:10 am

Ah, I see. Thanks for that!

callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:02 pm

Thabks palacebear, i assumed that was the case, but not looked into it properly yet.
The plate did confuse me when i bought it as it has later (uglier) front and rear lights, no semaphores and no wipers. So nothing to tell me straight away that it was an early car.
Started piecing it together when i looked closer at the pictures and noticed the twin opening gloveboxes and gold speedo. Then saw the wiper spindles. And finally i checked DVLA and saw it was a '58.

Anywho...this evening i have sat and given my 940 head a good scrubbing to get it cleaned up ready to fit. It was clearly refurbed at some point as the stem seals were still rubbery and not at all cracked (but will be replaced obviously!). Doesn't appear to have had much in the way of skimming, which is good as compression will be high with the flat tops. It had obviously say for a while, unused so there was quite a bit of gash in the ports. I'll lap in the valves in the coming days and smash off the quite corroded-on thermostat housing, as per normal. I'll drill out the replacement slightly before i fit it.
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callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:21 pm

Ah, this is basically what i based purchasing the car on 😂😂😂
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philthehill
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby philthehill » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:51 am

The 948cc block does appear to have been skimmed evidenced by the fly cutter marks on the top of the block.
Therefore I would suggest that as those flat top pistons are only just below the top of the block at TDC you use a compression plate https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/S-S-Decompre ... Swt6ZWVJsA to lift the head so as to reduce the depth of the pocketing.


callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:47 am

Hi Phil,
I won't be fitting a decompression plate, although i am sure it would help. The depth of pocketing shouldn't be too big as i will be running the standard 1098 cam and the head hasn't been excessively skimmed.
So, without having done the measuring properly yet, i am looking at around a 1mm pocket, or a dremel blades worth of depth!
But i will be getting the vernier out and measuring it all once the valves have been lapped in.

The mini i had was a 1098, rebored with Imp pistons (so flat top) and a decked block. That had a 286 cam in it and i put a 940 head on it. The pocketing was quite deep on that, but it still worked well. I say well, it was a brute of an engine.

philthehill
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby philthehill » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:07 am

These are the type and depth (depth may vary slightly) of pockets I would expect to see when fitting a 940 cylinder head to a standard unskimmed small bore block irrespective of the cam being fitted or the amount of skimming having been undertaken on the head and block.
1100cc block with 940 cut outs.jpg
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If you are only requiring 1mm of pocketing surly it would be easier to sink the 4 exhaust valves by 1mm and put a 1mm spacer under the valve springs or even face off the exhaust valves by 1mm in a lathe.
If the clearance between exhaust valve and the bottom of the pocket is not sufficient shrouding of the valve will occur and max performance will not be obtained.
Phil


callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:33 am

I'll see if i can do the work this afternoon to obtain the info i need to decide on pocket depth. I'll let you know!
As ever, information from you is appreciated 🙌

callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:42 pm

Aye up,
Well i did the measuring. Head has never been skimmed according to the height, which is good.
So having measured the valve head to head face depth, it came in at around 0.261".
The valve lift with standard rockers and cam is, according to my info is 0.313".
That gave me approx 0.052" of valve protruding from the head face.
So, i could sink the valves and/or skim the valve faces, which would be good. But...funds are tight and i don't have access to the machines required.
Plus, if i do come into some funds, i may be tempted by a different cam at some point. So by pocketing the block whilst the engine is out of the car, it is a much easier proposition. If i sink by 0.06" (approx 1.5mm) then it allows for future work and reduces the compression somewhat.

This is where i get my cam info from, i got it from someone in my Mini days (about 6 years ago).
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philthehill
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby philthehill » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:09 am

Before you do anything I would advise that you check the distance from the top of the top ring at TDC to the bottom of the proposed valve pocket.
Anything less than 5mm could lead to combustion erosion of the top ring and piston.


callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:54 am

Hi Phil,
Thanks again. Just did a check of the wear mark on the bore (no lip) and it is just over 7mm from the bottom the mark to the block face. So if i go 1.5mm deep with the pocket, then it gives some wiggle room.
I know it may seem trivial to not just shave the valves and sink them, but i cannot stress the budget i'm on will not allow for it. A careful dremel, as i have done previously, is free. The saving will pay for a new tyre.

philthehill
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby philthehill » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:47 pm

Should that not be 7mm from the top of the piston ring swept area mark to the top of the block?
I would suggest that you fit the assembled head with an old gasket and torque down after putting some plasticine in the valve pockets.
Turn the engine over so as to allow all exhaust valves to have opened and closed.
Remove head and see what thickness the plasticine is.
The plasticine trick is a good way of checking clearances.
Even though I have a very good idea of the clearances when building an engine I certainly would not assemble an engine without using the plasticine trick so as to ensure there is adequate working clearance plus a bit more for valve float at high engine revs.
Phil


callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:56 pm

Aye up,
So i dremel'd the pockets and did reassembled the engine, span it up (by hand obviously!) and it didn't catch at all.
Then i read your message Phil and i figured better to do the pasticine too, just for peace of mind.
So i did that and it was all good. Hardly any squish on the plasticine, as expected. It was a bit close to the edge of my cut outs on 2+3, nto touching, but close, so i cut those back a bit further for peace of mind.
Retested and all appears well with it.
Have a few parts to buy, but it is pretty much ready to go in now.
Unfortunately i am still not in a position to remove the old engine due to my leg issues. Else i could get it in and see how it runs! For shaaaame!

Due to the block decking, the back of the head rested ever so slightly on the back plate, so a little shave of the plate was requires. Also trimmed the water pump a wee bit too. Curious, as i didn't need to take a lot off the pump, but then i suppose it is an unskimmed head. I have previously had to take a lot off on other 940 head converions.
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callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:18 pm

Aye up,
Well, today i convinced my dad to remove the engine from the car as i need the funds from its impending sale. I also manages to get the replacement back in its place.
I am awaiting the oil filter housing and crankshaft pulley, then i should be able to get the engine fully assembled and ready to fire up.
I need to check the fuel system yet too.
And wiring.

So lots to do before firing it up then, ha!

But it was a big step getting it in, at least it is good seeing that it has an engine in there that actually turns!
No pictures today as i had to scurry off for physio.
Progress may slow a little now as we have a house move coming up and i am required to do housemoving stuff, for shame. But any updates, i will be sure to post.
🙌

callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:57 pm

Aye up,
Had a bit of time this afternoon, so i rejigged the wiring behind the speedo. There were additional wires for all the bits and bobs (washer jets, reverse light switch, horn) that were redundant. Took a while to figure out what everything did a few weeks ago, so i just did the tidy up today.

Then i cut the holes for the gauges. I am a fan of gauges and not a fan of additional switches if i can help it. So the odd switches that were in the dash (not even lined up) were removed leaving holes. These have now had holes cut ready for my oil pressure and coolant temp gauges. I just need to run the additional illumination wiring. These now have LED bulbs in them too, because i like LED's. I just need to run a file on the cut outs so the gauges fit in. Hopefully if i have time tomorrow i'll get those in and plumbed in.

The horn switch which was randomly fitted to the top of the right hand dash will now be the reversing light switch. I didn't have anything else to fill the hole with and i had the leftover switch from the wipers (using a light switch for the wiper switch) so thought i could just use that.

Also a picture of the engine bay. Hellish wiring which is being stripped and will be retaped. Additional relays will be wired up, should be alright once done. Need to find something to cover them though as they are supremely ugly.

Also, i changed the gearstick as it had a smoothe case stick in the ribbed box. What a difference to the throw. Much more precise.

A couple of pics. Not great, but shows what i am working with. It should be alright once i am done with it, it will always be a bit rough, but it's going to be a cheap daily driver, so no frills.
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callyspoy
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Re: 1958 2 door, rolling resto

Postby callyspoy » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:07 am

Aye up,
House move is complete and i am back at work after the knee op.
So...back to car stuff.

This week i got the engine running. Hoorah!
I noticed a leak at the head gasket, oil dripping from the front right hand side (the feed for the rockers). Most troubling as i have had that before with fitting a 940 head on a 948. That one had dished pistons and hadn't been decked, so presume not a high compression issue.

Any who, i did some researching and took it off. Nothing untoward was evident in that area, so i put it all back together, following the sequence to the letter and voila, no oil leak. I can only assume i made an error when doing the torque sequence.
So now it runs, i need to look at tidying the dash and engine bay so that i can give the gearbox and brakes a look at.
The front calipers are covered in spiders webs, so i will try a small clean off to start with, failing that, new seals. They do not appear to be leaking at the moment though.
If the brakes work, i'll then take it for a spin around the block to see how it feels. Not sure how long until i get to that position though.
But it is firing up, which is blinking wonderful!


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