Removing sump for oil change?

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yellowpinky
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Removing sump for oil change?

Postby yellowpinky » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:54 pm

It's that time of the year that an oil change is due... however this time I was thinking of trying a more comprehensive job by removing the sump to clean everything out more thoroughly... the question is... is it worth it?
Seemed like a good idea at first until I saw the price of a decent gasket, which seems to come in two halves? my minor has the 1275 sprite engine btw... then I'm wondering if I also need gasket sealant?

The thought arose after last year's oil change... where I accidentally put too much oil in & then had to drain a bit out underneath... which came out black as your hat!

any thoughts welcome?

Nickol
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby Nickol » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:12 pm

The real experts on the forum can make a better factual judgement than me but...

I had to remove the sump from another Old Timer of mine to inspect the bearings and which probably did not have an oil change since God was a child. The thick black gunge had to be scraped off the bottom. A normal oil change I had made about 1000km earlier had already turned black, most probably mixing itself with the gunge.
So I suppose for peace of mind, if you do not know the history, it is well worth doing. The signs may be how quick new oil darkens up.
Gott schütze mich vorm Sturm und Wind und Autos, die aus England sind.
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Myrtles Man
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby Myrtles Man » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:15 pm

Use flushing oil instead?

philthehill
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby philthehill » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:30 pm

I would advise that you :-
Remove the sump,
Clean the inside and outside of the sump,
Clean the oil pick up gauze,
Fit new gaskets/end seals without sealant. Lightly grease the gaskets and seals to keep the gaskets and seals supple and ease of fitting.

You may be surprised what gunge you find in the sump on its removal.

You will not get all the gunge out just using flushing oil.

You can use high detergent diesel engine oil in a petrol engine which will keep the sump and oilways clean and all the crud will be carried to the oil filter. Using a high detergent engine oil may require more frequent filter changes but a filter change is cheaper than engine wear.

Phil


oliver90owner
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby oliver90owner » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:03 pm

What oil are you using?

When I change from non-detergent to detergent oil in old tractors, I like to at least remove the pan. But that does not necessarily clean off stuff from other parts of the engine. I have, in the past, found blocked oilways - as these old tractors of mine only have bypass filtration systems fitted. A governor casing exploded on our main farm tractor back in the 1950s - due to, I think, a lack of lubrication via a long and narrow oill feed pipe.

A good quality filter, possibly with a high efficiency bypass filter, and oil should stay perfectly serviceable in a full flow oil filtration system. Oil and filters are cheap compared to engine reconditioning.

Advice can depend on condition of engine, how much oil it burns, blowby, etc. I run all my engines on detergent oil; clean internals, no gummed-up piston rings are preferable to ‘gunk in the sump’, IMO.

Edited to add that PTH posted before me - I had my dinner to eat, while hot, before finishing off my reply!

philthehill
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby philthehill » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:11 pm

No need to buy expensive sump gaskets especially the preformed plastic end bushes (TAM 1089 £5.00 & TAM1171 £5.50).
I use the original cork gaskets at each end of my Midget/Marina sumps and if fitted correctly do not leak.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-MORRI ... :rk:2:pf:0

Phil


yellowpinky
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby yellowpinky » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:20 pm

An interesting read, thanks everyone! :)
I should have mentioned... the engine is in good condition... it was rebuilt & balanced about ten years ago & runs beautifully, yeah it cost a far few quid at the time, which is why I'm trying my best to look after it.
Having said that it does use a little oil... I was told that they all do... ???
I'm using 20/50 oil that I bought in a drum a while ago, I can't think which brand it is, but it was recommended when I bought it... & reasonably priced as it was bought in quantity...
I like the idea of getting a cheapish gasket & using grease to help seal it... I bet the grease helps hold the gasket in place too...

oliver90owner
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby oliver90owner » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:34 am

As it is a multi-grade oil, it is likely at least of a mild detergent type. Therefore likely a waste of time and effort in removing the sump for cleaning. Detergent oils are designed to carry what would have been sludge in suspension. Most diesels soon turn their oil black, but that does not mean the oil is not effective. Effective bypass filtration is, I think, the only way to keep a detergent oil free of colloidal solids.

ianmack
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby ianmack » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:45 am

I don’t routinely remove sumps. For a thorough clean I get the engine good and warm, jack the car so the drain plug is lowest and then drain and let it drip overnight. Plug and refill next day.

The worst sludge I ever saw was in a dumper truck engine. Even after the plug was removed nothing came out until I poked a screwdriver in through the muck.

JOWETTJAVELIN
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby JOWETTJAVELIN » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:43 pm

When I have stripped engines in the past, its not so much the sump as the other oilways around the engine, which are more important, like arteries in the body. Rocker shafts for instance have very small oil squirt holes, as do pistons, and I have had to probe these clear of carbonised oil. The sump on the other hand is designed to allow a certain build up of sediment.

As your engine was rebuilt 10 years ago it should still be clean, providing oil changes have been done every 3000 miles or so and a quality oil used. Having said that, it wouldn't do any harm to remove the sump (its even recommended in some handbooks) and clean the areas people have said, but I worry about leaks once the semi circular cork gaskets are disturbed... if it is oil tight already, personally I would leave alone.
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pgp001
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Re: Removing sump for oil change?

Postby pgp001 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:50 pm

Why not get yourself a cheap borescope, they can be had for few quid these days and send a picture via WiFi to your phone or tablet.
They are ideal for looking inside any cavities such as sills, doors, chassis rails etc, and I don’t see why you could not poke it into the sump drain plug and have a look around inside.

Phil


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