HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Discuss mechanical problems here.
Matt Tomkins
Minor Addict
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:01 pm
MMOC Member: No

HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby Matt Tomkins » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:14 pm

Hi all,

I started the car yesterday - 1st time since i'd changed the oil - to check i'd filled the gap between the exhaust and manifold properly and, in the 30 seconds or so it was running, it had dropped no less than half a gallon of new oil onto the workshop floor.
it appeared to be coming from the oil filter (original type)
i've tightened everything up and re-filled the oil - luckily i had 3/4 of a gallon left from the oil change.
i havn't started it since.

any ideas?
i'm spending sunday, as a result of the massive delays that caused me yesterday, not at brooklands, but getting the car finished for an MOT next week.

I'd really appreciate your suggestions as to what this could be and how to rectify it - will i have to re-drain all the new oil?

also, what's the best way of clearing up oil from a concrete floor of a borrowed workshop! - i've used newspaper to mop up as much as possible, but not sure what's best.

Matt


http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins

Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487

Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]

chrisryder
Minor Legend
Posts: 2217
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:44 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby chrisryder » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:24 pm

sand or sawdust can be good for soaking up spillages. but if it's already soaked into the concrete... there's not a lot you can do!

with regards the leak, i'm not sure (all our cars have spin on filters) but i am aware there are meant to be o-rings, possibly one under the head of the bolt that holds the canister on. is there oil down the canister? or has it come straight from the bolt. oil won't go up hill normally, so work your way up and that will be your leak!

Jefftav
Minor Addict
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:28 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby Jefftav » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:55 pm

Was the spring and plate still in the oil filter canister and did you replace the sealing ring at the top part of the oil filter canister? Could be that you just didn't tighten the filter canister up properly and the oil pressure has pushed it past the seal. Also next time you start it up put a container under the filter housing just in case.

Sand, sawdust to clean up and lots of grovelling apologies to whoever owns the garage. :lol:
Image

Budgie
Minor Addict
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:10 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby Budgie » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:14 pm

i,m inclined to agree with whats been said as it can really only be the sealing ring it,s always best to fit a new seal each time you remove the cannister so as to avoid the consequenses you,ve experienced,on saying that don,t tighten it up too tight :D

aupickup
Minor Maniac
Posts: 6005
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:41 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby aupickup » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:23 pm

i have allways used the same sealing ring and never had a problem

mike.perry
Series MM Registrar
Posts: 10184
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:39 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby mike.perry » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:40 pm

I never change the sealing ring but I do check for leaks every time, just in case. Trying to change the sealing ring causes more problems than it solves. As has already been said, make sure the filter bowl is screwed up tight.
[sig]3580[/sig]

Matt Tomkins
Minor Addict
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:01 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby Matt Tomkins » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:47 pm

i think it was coming from the top of the canister,
i did replace the o ring (but there wasn't actually one there in the first place), and i've tightened everything up now.
I'll put some sawdust down and a canister underneath next time i start it.
if i have to take the filter off and reposition it (if it's not sitting right, maybe), would i need to drain the sump?
sorry for the complete lack of knowledge on the subject!


http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins

Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487

Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]

MarkyB
Minor Maniac
Posts: 7845
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:18 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby MarkyB » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:02 pm

It would certainly have leaked if there hadn't been a seal in there before.
The worst part of the job is getting the old seal out I used the point from an old school compass to tweak it out.

It is also quite possible to put the case backed cocked in which case no amount of tightening will make it seal, you need to feel around the edge as you tighten it to make sure it goes in square.

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"

xpress
Minor Addict
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:08 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby xpress » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:43 pm

Hmm guess who's changing his oil and filter?

I have noticed wariness of changing the o ring. Is it the small ring. Why is it hard to get out and where is it? Can you do it off the car? My filter housing is weeping anyway.

Rubber o ring goes under main bolt head next to filter bowl? I have two large rings but do I only need one? It says to push this down at four equidistant points. So as not to stretch it and seal properly

The change to screw type do you remove the screw and spring washer and fit a new joint .. between filter to cylinder block?


chrisryder
Minor Legend
Posts: 2217
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:44 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby chrisryder » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:58 pm

to fit a spin on filter, you need a new 'filter head' which means undoing the two nuts you already have, slide the old filter head off the long studs. remove the studs and fit much shorter ones. fit new head. spin on new filter. never worry about o-rings again!

best done when you're doing an oil change.

Neil MG
Minor Legend
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:05 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby Neil MG » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:05 pm

Sounds like the old sealing ring may still be squashed up inside the housing. It can be difficult to see so it might have appeared that there wasn't one there. Fitting a new one over the top will almost certainly cause a leak. It sometimes takes quite a bit of removing but any sharp pointy thing does the job! Check the new seal is the right size sometimes there are more than one, fatter or thinner than needed and either won't fit or won't seal.
1956 Morris Minor Series II
1959 MGA 1600 Roadster
1966 Jaguar Mk2 3.8 MOD

DAVIDMCCULLOUGH
Minor Legend
Posts: 2996
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:42 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby DAVIDMCCULLOUGH » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:18 pm

There is generally 2 sealing rings in the filter box, use the thinner one. When replacing the seal use a bit of grease to keep it in place while your fitting the oil filter cannister. Screw the filter bolt as tight as you can with just your hand, then turn the cannister about 1/4 of a turn and tighten with a spanner.

I always turn the engine over on the starter only (using the solenoid button or pull start) until the oil pressure light goes out, check for leaks and if none then try starting it up. The oil filter light should go out very quickly, if it doesnt chek for leaks again.

If you were a bit closer I would come and give you a hand :D


Too many Minors so little time.....

rayofleamington
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7679
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:55 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby rayofleamington » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:41 am

I've had this once - but over 20 years ago :oops:
The housing seal rectagular section "O-ring" (ok, it's not actually an O-ring, but you know what I mean) can fall out of the groove... When it starts to fall out, it misaligns with the groove and stays put with part of it not sitting in the groove.
Therefore when you fit the housing, a large section can be completely unsealed and this leads to a big leak when running.
If the area of seal that is hanging out is between the housing and the block, it's very hard to see (that was my excuse but my dad was furious about the oil on his drive)

To get it to stay in place on cold windy evening, smear it with grease - otherwise it will jump out of the groove as soon as you try to fit the housing.

Spin on filters - I've never added one, as the original housing is fine once you've learnt its "characters". More and more modern cars are changing back to element filters...
I did have one Mionor that came with a spin on filter - the adapter (mini version?) was leaking where it joined the block :roll: I had to make up a bridging plate with different gaskets each side as the interfaces didn't match.
Ray. MMOC#47368. Forum moderator.

Jan 06: The Minor SII Africa adventure: http://www.minor-detour.com
Oct 06: back from Dresden with my Trabant 601 Kombi
Jan 07: back from a month thru North Africa (via Timbuktu) in a S3 Landy
June 07 - back from Zwickau Trabi Treffen
Aug 07 & Aug 08 - back from the Lands End to Orkney in 71 pickup
Sept 2010 - finally gave up breaking down in a SII Landy...
where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(

Chris Edgar
Minor Fan
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:11 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby Chris Edgar » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:39 am

Had a very similar experience with a A35 in the early 70's .... oil everywhere

Almost certainly the old ring is still in there & a new ring on top of an old ring will not seal.
Carefully remove the new ring that you put in & then dig out the old one as has been suggested, with a pointed instrument.
Make sure that the new ring is not damaged at all & fit it into the groove with a little oil or grease to hold in place
Offer up the canister with filter & all springs etc in place & slowly tighten the bottom nut...as you approach fully tight, gently rotate the bowl to make sure that it turns freely & there is no evidence of snagging which would indicate a problem with the seal. Then if OK fully, but do not over, tighten

Give engine a good spin on the starter before using ign
You do not need to drain the sump first

BTW I never change the seal either

Chris
1958 4 door Morris Minor birch grey
1937 Austin Seven Ruby

Matt Tomkins
Minor Addict
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:01 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby Matt Tomkins » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:21 pm

You do not need to drain the sump first
thank god for that!

so just put an oil drainer under the filter housing, undo, and that's it?
it won't come pouring acrtoss from the engine?
Give engine a good spin on the starter before using ign
my car's a 1970 model with an electronic key ignition - should i just disconnect the king lead?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins

Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487

Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]

chrisryder
Minor Legend
Posts: 2217
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:44 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby chrisryder » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:46 pm

i'd disconnect king pin lead, and the both spade connectors on the coil. i've had arcs accross the coil leaving the coil plugged in!

rayofleamington
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7679
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:55 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby rayofleamington » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:27 pm

it won't come pouring acrtoss from the engine?
The only oil you will get is what is in the filter housing.

I would guess you don't have some fancy complex electronic ignition - if you do then you need to take more care with the coil and ht leads - on some versions they can be damaged if you turn over without having the right connections.

Any car with a button on the solenoid - you can use this to crank the engine with the igniotion off - this way you won't even risk flooding it.
With a normal dizzy 'points set-up' (on a later car like yours with spade connectors) you can just disconect the black and white wire from the spade on the side of the dizzy and position it somewhere that it wont fall back in place. It doesn't even matter if it grounds-out to the engine or body as that is all the points do anyway* With that wire removed, the engine won't start.

Then spin the engine on the key - on a half decent engine the oil pressure light will go out in about 30 seconds to a minute**.
If your battery is weak, take the plugs out to let the engine spin more freely***

Once the oil light is out, you know everything is working ok. After that, run the engine and immediately look for leaks****



* don't hold the king lead whilst connecting/disconnecting the dizzy wire to ground with the ignition switched on - you might get a shock

** whether priming the oil system oil, or it just won't start - You shouldn't give more than 15 seconds on the starter without a minute or so wait in between, as the starter motor will get hot under load.
If you fill the housing just over a quarter full before you put the filter-element in, then the filter assembly will take a lot less time to prime up. Don't worry about trying to get it completely full as that is asking for trouble.

*** If the plugs are out, then don't worry about how long you turn it over, as it will use a lot less current (=less heat)

**** that's a good policy whatever you've serviced/repaired on an engine! I've known spin on filters to leak - cartridge filters not to seal, sparks to fly about if a lead is loose, petrol to spray out of a carb when the inlet needle stuck open etc..
Ray. MMOC#47368. Forum moderator.

Jan 06: The Minor SII Africa adventure: http://www.minor-detour.com
Oct 06: back from Dresden with my Trabant 601 Kombi
Jan 07: back from a month thru North Africa (via Timbuktu) in a S3 Landy
June 07 - back from Zwickau Trabi Treffen
Aug 07 & Aug 08 - back from the Lands End to Orkney in 71 pickup
Sept 2010 - finally gave up breaking down in a SII Landy...
where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(

Kevin
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7596
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:00 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby Kevin » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:36 pm

[quote="Matt Tomkinsso just put an oil drainer under the filter housing, undo, and that's it?
it won't come pouring across from the engine? [/quote]
Yes that's right and no the oil is lower down in the sump.
my car's a 1970 model with an electronic key ignition - should i just disconnect the king lead?
Or take the rota arm off.
Cheers

Kevin
Lovejoy 1968 Smoke Grey Traveller (gone to a new home after13 years)

Herts Branch Member
Moderator MMOC 44706

bmcecosse
Minor Maniac
Posts: 46561
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:24 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby bmcecosse » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:29 pm

As others have said - the old seal IS in there - dig it out (although again I never change it) and fit the new one - unless of course you have damaged it by screwing it up with two seals in. You were asked earlier if the spring and plate are inside the filter canister - ARE THEY ?? This is MOST important. The filter should be filled up with oil when refitting - and then take the plugs out and spin the engine to check for leaks. Cement dust is the best you can hope to do with the mess.
ImageImage
Image

jeff-d
Minor Friendly
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:47 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: HELP! MASSIVE OIL LEAK!

Postby jeff-d » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:14 pm

i have bought an oil filter but when i had a look in the box there was 3 rubber seals with the fillter none small enough to fit under the bolt head i know one must be for to seal the bowl but what are the other two for cheers


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Garyjohndavies, Rasputin and 5 guests