renewing eyebolt bushes?

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moggymaniac
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renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby moggymaniac » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:43 pm

So i was made aware in my last MOT that the eyebolt rubbers were perishing or worn and it is the cause of the suspension squeak that i have been wondering about for the last month or so. I've bought some poly replacements and Had i look in the manual and there doesn't seem to be any specific instructions on the renewal of the eyebolt rubber bushes. Whats the easiest way to do it (i.e. do i have to touch the torsion bar/back side of the front suspension?) Cheers, Jamie


chickenjohn
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby chickenjohn » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:14 pm

get the club manual- this has instructions on how to change the eyebolt bushes. You also need Whitworth sockets and spanners as the majority of nuts and bolts here are Whitworth and if you use metric or AF you will have a lot of trouble!

Soak everything in penetrating oil for a few hours before hand!

1) Loosen wheel nuts on both sides
2) Jack front car up and support on axle stands under front chassis legs (use rubber or wood to protect the leg), remove wheels.
3) loosen the torsion bar nut behind the crossmember.
4) Undo all the nuts and bolts that hold the front half of the wishbone to the rear half of the wishbone, undo the tie bar nut and bolt, withdraw and remove the tie bar and front half of the wishbone- note some nuts/bolts here are AF some Whitworth, DO NOT use metric!!!
5) loosen the eyebolt nut (big whitworth socket) from engine bay side of chassis leg.
6) Jack up the rear half of the wishbone to remove the tension on the suspension leg- the lower trunnion may now be withdrawn.
7) lower the wishbone on the jack and carefully tap the wishbone back on the torsion bar splines (so as to not lose the wishbone position on the splines- if you knock it off you may upset ride height!)
8) Undo the eyebolt nut twist and remove eyebolt from chassis leg. You will not be able to withdraw the eyebolt shackle and eyebolt bushes. Renew bushes and re-assemble in the reverse of the above procedure using copperslip on the nut/bolt threads. Carefully inspect the eyebolt for wear. It should be prefectly circular, but if you have had metal to metal contact for a while (squeaking on bumps!) the eyebolt and shackle may be worn oval, in which case you will need a new eyebolt as well as a new shackle!

9) while the suspension is apart it is a good idea to also renew tie bar bushes and the top trunnion bushes- as only a small extra bit of stripping is needed at this point!

10) use a tapered drift or small "podger" to line up the tie bar in the tie bar retaining slot to enable the retaining bolt to be fitted- bolt on top, nylock nut underneath!

11) don't forget to make sure the torsion bar is properly located in its hole in the crossmember and the torsion bar nut is done up!

I would also grease the trunnions and track rod while the wheel is off and the car is jacked up.

BTW, in the BMC workshop manual there are torque settings for these nuts and bolts. I just do them up tight.

Good luck and enjoy, should keep you busy for the rest of today! I may have forgotten something, so please use common sense, and please ask here if unsure!

Refit wheels, lower car to the ground and tighten wheel nuts. Job done! Both sides should
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moggymaniac
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby moggymaniac » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:43 pm

wow talk about in detail, thankyou ever so much, i will set to i next weekend as todays job was electric washer bottle motor :D seems like a sensible idea seeing as i'm dismantling the suspension to this extent to renew the other bushes too, thanks for the advice.

As a separate issue, i am looking at lowering the car slightly (using the several locating holes for the torsion bar), would it be useful to do this whilst i'm doing this job, as in, is it easier to do it then because the torsion bar isn't under tension? or should i save that job for another day? thanks, Jamie


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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby Dean » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:32 pm

chickenjohn wrote:
10) use a tapered drift or a small "podger" to......


Excellent post there by CJ.... can I add though that he did say "Podger" and not "Todger", it case there is any confusion and moggymaniac starts knocking on neighbours doors with a tape measure looking for someone with a small one.

Just thought I'd clear that one up. :D
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chickenjohn
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby chickenjohn » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:43 pm

LOL! Your "Todger" would have to be pretty small to fit in a 1/4 inch hole! and very strong to to line the hole in the tie bar to the hole in the tie bar retainer!

On removing the tie bar:

1) once the nut and bolt holding the tie bar to the wishbone retainer is removed
2) remove the split pin and the castellated nut at the body end of the tie bar.
3) withdraw tie bar, the bushes can now be replaced.

On removing the top trunnion:

1) tap back the locking washer from the top trunion nut with a drift
2) undo top trunion nut
3) The top trunnion may now be withdrawn from the lever arm damper rod and the bushes replaced.

One thing I forgot to mention! The nuts that compress the bushes should not be fully tightened until the car is back on its wheels on the ground and the suspension is loaded. Otherwise you may compress the bushes too much leading to premature wear.

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby bmcecosse » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:51 pm

No need to undo everything mentioned above - the eyebolt bushes can be renewed very simply and very quickly without for example removing the tie-bar. Seriously - it's a half-hour job per side. Don't lower the car at the rear multi-hole plate - just drop it one spline at the front while dealing with the eyebolt bushes. Good time to put a thick washer(or maybe two) behind the eyebolt head to give a little negative camber. Measure the camber on each side first to decide if this is necessary. Retrack the front wheels at the end of the work..........
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby MarkyB » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:04 pm

Tell us your method then Roy.
I cant see how you can mange without undoing the tie bar at all, but I'm all ears.

I don't disturb the splines, just pull the torsion bar back until the eyebolt comes out then tap it back with a drift.
The car does need to be well supported though.

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby chickenjohn » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:10 pm

When you've done it a few times, it takes less than half an hour to strip the whole lot!

I would not advise Roy's method as the rear wishbone/torsion bar will still be under tension! Use at your own risk!!!!!

And with my second post I am describing renewing all the bushes!!!

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby bmcecosse » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:17 pm

I have described many times how to adjust the height with minimal disconnection - same method applies to the eyebolt bush replacement. And no - the T bar is obviously unloaded when doing the job - front connection of tie-bar is not touched. But I agree! The whole lot can be stripped and rebuilt in 30 mins if it all comes apart nicely.
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby chickenjohn » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:31 am

Roy, you're really not being very helpful here to the original poster, and I'm beginning to doubt you've ever done the job as you are not making any sense. You DO have to strip the suspension to change the eye bolt bushes. There are things in the way! Reasons:-

1) the front half of the wishbone has to come off to get at the front of the eye bolt. No way round that one!
2) The tie bar IS bolted to the front half of the wishbone and HAS to be unbolted from the wishbone and moved out of the way in order to remove the front half of the wishbone. No way round that one either!
3) The rear half of the wishbone has to be driven back on the torsion bar splines in order to be driven off the rear of the eye-bolt shackle in order to get the eye bolt and shackle out- no way round that one either!
4) The lower trunnion shackle cannot be pulled out of the rear wishbone without jacking the rear wishbone- because at this point the torsion bar is under tension! Need to jack it up about 4" as it says in the manual. No way round that one either!!

I can only guess, Roy that you have got the eye-bolt and top trunnion bushes confused! And you seem to have got Torsion bar and Tie bar confused. And perhaps you have got eye-bolt and Tie-bar bushes confused?? Was it perhaps a long time since you last stripped the front suspension?

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby bmcecosse » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:59 am

No - nothing confused -done the job many times, including just a few months ago. There are ways of minimising the undoing!
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby chickenjohn » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:19 am

bmcecosse wrote:No - nothing confused -done the job many times, including just a few months ago. There are ways of minimising the undoing!
Not possible! Everything attached to the eyebolt has to come off in order to remove the eyebolt and shackle to replace the bushes. I'm talking about the Eyebolt (attached to the chassis inline with the wishbone) not the tie bar which is bolted to the front of the chassis.

If you have some magical way of changing the bushes without stripping the front suspension- do let us know! If not, please don't confuse and mislead the original poster Roy! We are trying to help him.

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby moggles » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:27 pm

I can see how you *could* do it without removing the tie rod from its yoke, but I can't see why you would - the saving in time would be very minimal since all you save is undoing a couple of nuts a side, and a much more dangerous way of unloading the torsion bar. Me, I like disassembling the whole lot so you can see what's what, and ensure everything is as it should be.

Sounds like CJ has issued a challenge to Roy to actually stop teasing and explain what he's on about, for the benefit of all - put up or shut up!

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby rayofleamington » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:28 pm

I can see how you *could* do it without removing the tie rod from its yoke, but I can't see why you would - the saving in time would be very minimal since all you save is undoing a couple of nuts a side, and a much more dangerous way of unloading the torsion bar. Me, I like disassembling the whole lot so you can see what's what, and ensure everything is as it should be.
It can be done without removing torsion bar rear end - however as per the others, I don't see that is the best way for the original poster! Removing and refitting the cup washer from front arm 'whilst suspension is on the car' - why waste the effort when you can check the torsion bar is all assembled correctly.

Dissassemble everything and make sure front and rear arms are free to slide on the splines (and grease the splines ready for whoever needs it apart again in a few decades). Unless the torsion bar arms are free to slide on the splines, chances are that the alignments can be wrong and certainly doesn't help to put things right.

Check all the parts against the picture in manual (for presence and position). At torsion bar rear end the stepped washer and C-washer are very important.
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby moggles » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:36 pm

BTW, I'd do it differently anyway - in particular I was pretty gobsmacked that you'd remove the eyebolt to change the bushes. In my experience, removing the tight, and usually rusted-in, eyebolt can take an additional 4 times the time spent to dismantle the suspension. Whilst it's good to get it out so you can assess it's, and the chassis rail's, condition, it's not necessary every time the rubber eyebolt bushes are replaced. Removing it also means that you have to perfectly realign it with the torsion bar location pin, to avoid premature 'eating' of the eyebolt bushes - not always so simple.\There's no actual need to remove the eyebolt - once the front of the lower arm is removed, and he back half is set back on it's spline, it is very easy to check and replace the eyebolt bushes, and pin, in situ without removing anymore bits.

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby MarkyB » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:20 pm

Unless the torsion bar arms are free to slide on the splines, chances are that the alignments can be wrong and certainly doesn't help to put things right.
Which alignments? Unless the car is falling apart there is a fixed distance between the eyebolt hole and the cross member.

When you are "on the tools" you are always looking for ways to simplify jobs that come up often and so cut down on the book time for a given job.
Where I used to work this would lead to bonuses, money in other words.

I'll never dismantle the whole front suspension just to get to the master cylinder bolts now I know you can lever the bar down a bit and get them out, why would I? It makes a mountain out of a mole hill.

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby David53 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:42 am

When I did mine I just pulled everything apart and replaced all the rubbers while I was at it. As CJ says, it doesn't take long at all and gives you the chance to check everything over and give all the components a nice coat of paint and make it look nice for the tester!

Just be sure to have the lower arm really really well supported on the jack as you lower and raise it, a slip could literally be fatal
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MarkyB
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby MarkyB » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:34 pm

a slip could literally be fatal

Are you a journalist David?
A slip could literally be fatal ( if you put your head under it and drop the car)
The torsion bar does need to be unloaded, but lets not get carried away!

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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby bmcecosse » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:43 pm

" lets not get carried away " - I think that's the point David is trying to make............ :oops:
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Re: renewing eyebolt bushes?

Postby polo2k » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:01 pm

MarkyB wrote:
a slip could literally be fatal

Are you a journalist David?
A slip could literally be fatal ( if you put your head under it and drop the car)
The torsion bar does need to be unloaded, but lets not get carried away!

First time I had a torsion bar off I broke a wrist doing it so the risks are REAL!
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