Head Gasket failure
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Head Gasket failure
Many rude words which would not be allowed to be published here ensued on Sunday morning, ij the wee small hours as I was driving home from the motorsport club barn, where we had just been stripping down a b-series engine for inspection and been disheartened to find that in far worse condition than expected, when a distinct and horrible noise started coming from misty's engine.
I was on an icy, unlit, dual carriage way with no hard shoulder and was therefore unable to stop. i slowed to around 40, and tried to keep as steady on the throttle as possible, but it was far from an ideal situation.
by the time i left the dual carriage way, it was only a few hundred yards home, and i gingerly pressed on and arrived safely. on pulling the first 2 ht leads off and finding no difference in the engine's running, my fears were confirmed. head gasket failure between bores.
after a sleepless night, i set to work at around 9.15 sunday morning.
by 9.45, i had the head off and the damage was exposed.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
although no discernible 'dip' in the block, there is a roughness on both the head and block caused by the heat damage. as such, i know i am on borrowed time now with this engine, and it will need stripping and skimming as a matter of urgency.
to make matters worse, i flushed the rad out while it was disconnected, and this has dislodged a piece of debris in the bottom which was plugging a hole. in getting the engine up to temperature so i could retorque it once it had cooled, i topped her up with a further 3 litres of water. i will have to try fetching the radiator out, getting it home and soldering it. if that doesn;t work, i will have to use the radiator supplied with the traveller. i'm just desperate not to let the project be used as a parts car.
For now, i have clamped it all down with a new copper head gasket, and hope it will last me long enough to strip, assess, and get a spare engine ready to go in.
candidates at the moment are either the engine which came with my traveller project (although this has sat for a year without oil, so will at the very least want the ends dropping off and lubing up before i was happy to run it), or the 1098 which lost oil pressure on MOT 2013, and whose bearings are rather noisy. If the crankshaft has survived, i will try dropping that one in with new bearings.
typical that these things always happen when funds are tight.
I was on an icy, unlit, dual carriage way with no hard shoulder and was therefore unable to stop. i slowed to around 40, and tried to keep as steady on the throttle as possible, but it was far from an ideal situation.
by the time i left the dual carriage way, it was only a few hundred yards home, and i gingerly pressed on and arrived safely. on pulling the first 2 ht leads off and finding no difference in the engine's running, my fears were confirmed. head gasket failure between bores.
after a sleepless night, i set to work at around 9.15 sunday morning.
by 9.45, i had the head off and the damage was exposed.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
although no discernible 'dip' in the block, there is a roughness on both the head and block caused by the heat damage. as such, i know i am on borrowed time now with this engine, and it will need stripping and skimming as a matter of urgency.
to make matters worse, i flushed the rad out while it was disconnected, and this has dislodged a piece of debris in the bottom which was plugging a hole. in getting the engine up to temperature so i could retorque it once it had cooled, i topped her up with a further 3 litres of water. i will have to try fetching the radiator out, getting it home and soldering it. if that doesn;t work, i will have to use the radiator supplied with the traveller. i'm just desperate not to let the project be used as a parts car.
For now, i have clamped it all down with a new copper head gasket, and hope it will last me long enough to strip, assess, and get a spare engine ready to go in.
candidates at the moment are either the engine which came with my traveller project (although this has sat for a year without oil, so will at the very least want the ends dropping off and lubing up before i was happy to run it), or the 1098 which lost oil pressure on MOT 2013, and whose bearings are rather noisy. If the crankshaft has survived, i will try dropping that one in with new bearings.
typical that these things always happen when funds are tight.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins
Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
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- Minor Fan
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Re: Head Gasket failure
Best of luck!
Grant, 23, Morris Minor traveller - Saloon. Merlin traveller 90% finished!
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Re: Head Gasket failure
thanks, grant!Sparticus wrote:Best of luck!
i whipped the radiator out to assess the extent of the leak, but back at uni i dont have many tools with me which made the job all the more difficult.
first, i filled it with water and discovered that the leak was coming from under the braketry.
i then fully drained it to avoid any mess throughout the repair process.[frame][/frame]
i then had to unsolder the bracket, but limited tools initially made me question the possibility of repair. but where there's a will, there;s a way.[frame][/frame]
this revealed a previous repair which has failed.[frame][/frame]
i then cleaned this up with emmery and brake cleaner.
I needed a repair medium which would resist heat and pressure.
luckily, there is an autofactors a short walk away, and i went and bought some JB Weld, which fulfills the above criteria, and carried out the repair.[frame][/frame]
I also used the jb weld to reinforce the soldered joint where the bottom hose connects.
just to let it dry now and pop it back into the car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins
Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
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- Minor Fan
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Re: Head Gasket failure
Lovely job. My radiator developed a small hole before i took Merlin off the road, i soldered it initially then coated it in a similar substance! Excuse my ignorance BUT will you have to completely dismantle the engine to skim the block?
Grant, 23, Morris Minor traveller - Saloon. Merlin traveller 90% finished!
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Re: Head Gasket failure
yeah, sadly it will.Sparticus wrote: Excuse my ignorance BUT will you have to completely dismantle the engine to skim the block?
thus begging the question of how far do you go while it's in bits...
I will just get a spare engine back together and use that as an interim. so bloody annoying!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins
Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
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- Minor Addict
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Re: Head Gasket failure
reinstalled and still leaking like a sieve - this time, at least, it was only water that went everywhere and not expensive antifreeze. It's out again and i've re-done the jb weld (and read the packet, which says leave for at least 15 hours to cure)
i'll reinstall it in the morning before work at 8am
i'll reinstall it in the morning before work at 8am
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins
Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
Re: Head Gasket failure
Good efforts! But it would be a lot safer to borrow the rad from the other car - and get the rad properly soldered when you have the facilities.
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Re: Head Gasket failure
if the jb goes off properly, then it should be hard as nails. i won't be risking bombing home in it tomorrow though. Mavis is with a friend in oxford, so i'll potter misty across to there, do a quick swap and take mavis home. i'll collect a spare radiator just in case. if the repair holds for a week or so of local journeys, i'll leave it. if not, i'll have to swap it out then replace it when funds allowbmcecosse wrote:Good efforts! But it would be a lot safer to borrow the rad from the other car - and get the rad properly soldered when you have the facilities.
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Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
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- Minor Legend
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Re: Head Gasket failure
You could leave the rad cap loose on the first notch so it won't build up pressure and hopefully not leak.
Talk slow, think fast!
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Re: Head Gasket failure
The second attempt with JB weld seems to have done the trick.
I'm now rebuilding the 1098 engine which lost oil pressure on MOT and subsequently came out of my convertible to be replaced by an original spec 948.
I know the top end to be in good nick, but it has a grumbly bottom end after the oil pressure loss incident....[frame][/frame]
and looking at this main bearing it's easy to see why! [frame][/frame]
All the mains are down to the copper and the big ends are scored too[frame][/frame]
With that amount of wear, it would have been a miracle to get away without damage to the crankshaft itself
and alas, no. The journals are all badly scored.[frame][/frame]
I have ordered a reground crank and bearings which should be with me middle of this week, all being well.
I have also ordered a duplex timing chain, as the simplex on there has a good amount of play in it, and i',m loathed to re-fit a worn part.
Besides, if i wasn't going duplex, i couldn't have wasted a fair amount of time on this...[frame][/frame]
I'm now rebuilding the 1098 engine which lost oil pressure on MOT and subsequently came out of my convertible to be replaced by an original spec 948.
I know the top end to be in good nick, but it has a grumbly bottom end after the oil pressure loss incident....[frame][/frame]
and looking at this main bearing it's easy to see why! [frame][/frame]
All the mains are down to the copper and the big ends are scored too[frame][/frame]
With that amount of wear, it would have been a miracle to get away without damage to the crankshaft itself
and alas, no. The journals are all badly scored.[frame][/frame]
I have ordered a reground crank and bearings which should be with me middle of this week, all being well.
I have also ordered a duplex timing chain, as the simplex on there has a good amount of play in it, and i',m loathed to re-fit a worn part.
Besides, if i wasn't going duplex, i couldn't have wasted a fair amount of time on this...[frame][/frame]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins
Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
Re: Head Gasket failure
Does appear to have lost pressure - and run dry... Why did that happen?? Was it low on oil... DO fit a new oil pump while in there! And take the relief valve out and clean it all through. And you would be better off with a Mini simplex chain - with tensioner.
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Re: Head Gasket failure
the oil pump priming screw came loose, and then fell out on the MOT campsite. Think, therefore, that it had been getting progressively worse all the way over, but it was only when it came out all together that the oil light came on.bmcecosse wrote:Does appear to have lost pressure - and run dry... Why did that happen?? Was it low on oil... DO fit a new oil pump while in there! And take the relief valve out and clean it all through. And you would be better off with a Mini simplex chain - with tensioner.
engine has good compression,. though and the rings and bores are nice so should be a good basis with a new crank in
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins
Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
Re: Head Gasket failure
That's an unusual one - never heard of it before - bad luck. Perhaps why they deleted it on later blocks.....
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Re: Head Gasket failure
no, nor had I.
It was just that paul andrews suggested trying to re-prime the oil pump if the block (austin) had the screw in it, and i realised then that it was sat on the edge of the block. We were on the verge of pulling the engine out on a french campsite, once a new oil pump had bee sourced.
It was just that paul andrews suggested trying to re-prime the oil pump if the block (austin) had the screw in it, and i realised then that it was sat on the edge of the block. We were on the verge of pulling the engine out on a french campsite, once a new oil pump had bee sourced.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
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Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
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- Minor Maniac
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Re: Head Gasket failure
I wouldn't have said it had run dry, that normally shows signs of the bearing getting hot and bearing material stuck to the journals.
"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"
Re: Head Gasket failure
The crank mains do seem to have picked up slightly - and the big ends are scuffed. But I'm guessing you switched off pretty much immediately. Anyway - reground crank and new pump will have it good as new!
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Re: Head Gasket failure
all reassembled now, new crank and duplex kit. plenty of miller assembly lube used,
just need to transfer bits from the old engine and put it in as soon as i get a moment.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
just need to transfer bits from the old engine and put it in as soon as i get a moment.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
http://www.facebook.com/matttomkins
Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]
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- Minor Legend
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Re: Head Gasket failure
Matt,
You did replace the two bottom screws for the timing cover with countersink, didn't you?
You did replace the two bottom screws for the timing cover with countersink, didn't you?
Richard
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Re: Head Gasket failure
i did indeed. and checked and it clears. thanks for checking though!IslipMinor wrote:Matt,
You did replace the two bottom screws for the timing cover with countersink, didn't you?
I would have had it done sooner if ESM had sent me the right bits to begin with, rather than a duplex conversion kit with a simplex chain so irritating when i'm only at my parent's house for an evening at a time, or a day if i'm lucky. So frustrating when i thought i would have had the parts to hand...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46862234@N ... 671969048/
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Misty, Morris Minor 2-door, 1970,
fully restored with the help of various of the young members to whom i am forever grateful. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43571
Also Mavis, 1960 Factory Tourer, and a '69 Traveller project: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53487
Join the young owners at: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/gr ... [sig]11392[/sig]