Is this 1st/2nd selector fork fit for re-use?

[lockupchap]

I've just begun dismantling a used gearbox of unknown condition, bought to replace the noisy box in my 1970 Traveller.

If the box is acceptable to re-use, my intention is to fit all the parts contained in an overhaul kit supplied by Heathrow Transmissions before it goes in the car.

From the comments posted by others, the condition of the 1st/2nd selector fork is critical, therefore can anyone advise whether the one shown in the following two photos is suitable for re-use?[frame][/frame]

[lockupchap]

And the other photo[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Hard to say really - how good a fit is it over the 1st gear ? These only wear if someone has been 'holding it in gear' - otherwise they don't do a great deal of work. Condition of 1st gear teeth and 2nd gear dog teeth are more more telling..... and most of all - condition of the 1st gear teeth on the laygear...

[lockupchap]

The laygear doesn't look damaged or worn, but I haven't been able to remove it from the box.

Since the posts earlier this afternoon, I've been unable to remove the first motion shaft, due to a gear wheel on the back end of it being too large to fit through the hole and into the bellhousing. The Haynes manual reckons the shaft should be extracted this way, but it doesn't. Until it's removed, the layshsaft can't be removed for inspection and to replace its roller bearings - if it's in good enough condition to re-use. Can anyone suggest a solution? See pic below:[frame][/frame]

[lockupchap]

Also I don't seem to be able to add more than one pic per post, hence this note.

I found this piece of brass in the bottom of the box - any ideas where it's from? It looks about the same thickness as a thrust washer, but the washers all look intact.[frame][/frame]

[win]

You have to remove the shaft from the lay gear, slide the gear to one side, and remove the 1st motion into the box, then remove the lay gear, from the box.
Regards Win

[bmcecosse]

As Win says - the 1st motion shaft comes IN to the box on the 1098/1275 boxes... You are looking at instructions for the earlier 948 box. Your broken part is either #18 I think, or perhaps 24 .... It may be from an earlier blow-up of course.... http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewP ... exID=17076

[les]

I think it is part of item 21 which is brass --18 and 24 are made of steel. If it was me I'd have to dismantle the mainshaft to check what was or wasn't there!

[philthehill]

Yes - item is No: 21. Pt No: 22G374.

Unusually Bull Motif list the item as a lay-shaft thrust washer Pt No: 10G157S but it is definably not a lay-shaft thrust washer.

http://www.morrisminorspares.net/shop_item.php?ID=1638

I agree with Les - strip that main shaft and make sure that all is ok. Better to do it now than have to strip the gearbox again and all for the cost of a new interlock at £12.
When the main shaft is stripped check the condition of item No: 20 Pt No: 2A3298 bush 2nd gear and item No: 22 Pt No: 2A3290 bush 3rd gear where they mesh with the interlock washer. Those two items may be damaged where they mesh with the interlock washer.
As regards your selector - the raised pressure/wear pads at either end are still extent so I would suggest it is more than serviceable.
If the pressure/wear pads were worn away then it would be scrap.

[bmcecosse]

I did wonder too if it was #21.......and at least Moss have the part for sale although almost £14 plus post etc...... And yes the mainshaft will HAVE to be dismantled now! Question really is - why did it break like that, and how did it escape.....?

[philthehill]

I have found that If the nut (item No: 27 Pt No: 2K6677) on the rear of the main-shaft and which holds it all together comes even slightly loose the interlock washer will start to chatter and eventually break/shatter.

[biomed32uk]

Interesting stuff to see some pics, my box is coming out for an overhaul on Sun, its working OK but with noisey bearings.

[lockupchap]

Thanks guys - the piece of brass does indeed appear to be part of item 21. When first glancing at the third motion shaft assembly it wasn't noticeable, but when peering between 2nd and 3rd gear there's definitely a chunk missing out of item 21.

Also I managed to remove the first motion shaft by pressing it backwards into the gearbox, although it was necessary to nudge the retaining nut with an angle grinder to create a 'jimp', into which an old chisel could be engaged.

My next question is how to separate 2nd and 3rd gears on the third motion shaft. The Haynes manual advises that each pulls off in a different direction, and it also warns about the need to make provision to catch the detent springs and ball bearings. It states that the first step is to press out the collar on the front of 3rd gear. But how? It won't lever out with a screwdriver, and I assume it doesn't push inwards and twist if is resting fully home against the gear wheel itself. Am I looking at the correct part, ie the first item beyond the visible shaft splines on this photo? Any advice?[frame][/frame]

[les]

You see the small plunger in one of the splines in your picture? Well you need to push it down and this will enable you to turn the splined washer/collar it pushes on. Turn it enough so it can be removed off the shaft. The plunger and spring will pop out. The gear can then be removed.

[bmcecosse]

You need to download the REAL workshop manual - just Google for it. It's not great on the gearbox - but between the two you should get a better idea....

[lockupchap]

Now found the plunger with Les's advice, and removed the remains of item 21, which broke into three pieces when I touched it.

Begun re-assembly, but realised that two of the detent springs have gone AWOL - I was looking in the wrong place to catch them from when dismantling. I was wondering about replacing them anyway in view of their modest cost versus the problems they can cause if weak. Hopefully Moss or Bull motif should be able to supply new ones within a few days and then the rebuild can proceed.

Incidentally I had an old smoothcase gearbox in the back of the garage - supplied with the car when I bought it as an unfinished project - and I've used item 21 from that box as it looks the same as the broken one in my ribbed gearbox.

[philthehill]

If you have a spare smooth case gearbox why not use the indent springs from that?
The MOSS parts list does not differentiate between the smooth and ribbed gearboxes as there is only one part number given for the indent springs which is 22G327 and is listed by MOSS as NLS (no longer stocked); and looking at the Bull Motif site the springs do not appear to be listed. Does not appear to be listed with ESM either unless listed under a non BMC number.

[taupe]

Next time it would be a good idea to dismantle inside a clear plastic bag...!

Taupe

[tim_jnv]

will be starting similar work myself in the coming weeks, once engine is done, nice to see someone else go ahead 1st!

[biomed32uk]

Just stripped my mainshaft tonight, between the output bearing and the first / second hub is a washer, looks to be doing nothing as its bigger than the bearing shoulder (just), not shown on any drawings either. There is a washer shown between the lockwasher and the speedo gear, thats missing so it may be that.

Does anyone have the guide to the fitting of any shims around the bearings, if they are needed. None in my box at all, and I would like to try and rebuild it correctly.