Engine mounting issues.

[akuchanny]

Couldn't get a stable power supply out to the car to sort the chassis issue today, but did adjust the dizzy and the engine turned over.Now it will not start. I think as I replaced the front plate as the orginal was warped (the reason the engine was pulled and due to a build error) that the timing gears may have shifted position although i am not sure either way just grasping at straws.

No amount of dizzy moving will make the engine start, and there was spark and fuel last time I checked two days ago.

I will pull the carb as well to see if the head is flooded, but had to step away today as it is now becoming hugely frustrating. I instead worked on the other car was that needed a headgasket swap but rain called end of play half way through that job.

I will pick up / order new timing cover gaskest and other sunderies then investigate the static timing, if anyone thinks that this could be the issue.

Thanks

Andy

[bmcecosse]

So - moving the dizzy allowed it to turn over - yet now it won't start - when it did run before ? Perhaps the plugs are simply wet/oiled with all the fuel that was pouring in - or maybe in all the excitement the plug leads got mixed up ? How did the front plate get damaged in a 'build error' ? If it ran before - the cam timing won't have moved - so it should run again. Check all the simple things before getting into the cam timing.

[akuchanny]

Okay, yes the dizzy movement did get it to turn over. The plugs are new, thet are NOS Bosch items. So I will pull them and dry them just incase. The engine last ran before it was pulled about a year ago.

The front plate had a long bolt put in at the top through the timing chain cover, instead of a short bolt, so it pushed againt the block and pulled it away from the block. meaning the engine ran but hemmoraged oil through the gap. THis was down to a garage move half way through the build. The engine was pulled and a spare put in, and it has been stored inside in the dry and at room temp.

I set the no 1 plug lead by taking out the first plug putting a thumb over the hole and turning it over until i felt pressure under the thumb. Then set the first plug lead on the dizzy that the rota arm was pointing to. then set the order as 1342.

After I put the engine back in I had to lock it in gear, support it and then remove the front plate use an impact driver to remove the dog nut and replace its front plate to solve the oil leak. I had to pull the timing gear to do this. I put the marks together then slowly pried the gears off. Then after replacing the front plate re assembled. The engine ran with throttle for a few seconds (with the carb wrongly plumbed in) but has since not caught on turnover. I tired to adjust the timing and it kicked back against it by being too advanced.

I was thinking that if I pull the front of the car again then set the static timing and check that the timing gears markers line up, then if they don't reassemble so that it as set as the manual says. I did step away from the car for 5 mins and someone may have moved something ( i am working on the road side and the car gets a lot of attention and east londoners can get grabby) although if the engine ran roughly I am pretty sure that its not that, but its a worry at the back of my mind. Although it would only run with throttle.

I have spark, I have air, and I have fuel (so unless its too much fuel, surely after a few days this still cant be flooded should have evaporated by now.) I am stumped as to why I can't get it started.

Any ideas would be greatfully recieved.

[bmcecosse]

I doubt it is cam timing - and it's a lot of work to get into the sprockets - although there is an easier way to check. * Plug lead order 1342 ANTI clockwise round the dizzy cap ? If you dry the plugs and have a good spark - it should run. Sorry if some of the advice sounds like 'sucking eggs' - but it's easy to get it wrong - especially if working in less than ideal conditions.
* Set the valve gaps on #1 cylinder to 60 thou. Turn the engine to put #4 at TDC on compression (ie - firing) - now measure the valve gaps on #1 at this point - they should be the SAME. Doesn't matter what - as long as both are near enough the same, the valve timing is correct.

[akuchanny]

Thanks BMC, appreciate the help, its one of those things that is now sending me bonkers. Will look at it tomorrow and let you know how I get on. If your ever in london I owe you a brew!

[akuchanny]

Okay pulled the plugs, cleaned and dried them. re set no: 1 cylinder with thumb over plug hole waiting for compression on up stroke. Re attached the plug leads 1342 anti clockwise. tried to start it…. and still nothing. its still slightly kicking back against the started although no where near as bad, and only seems to have a very small sweet spot. Yet again I am stumped and had to walk away with the air blue around me. I did get more done on the other car because of this, but still have a paper weight of a morris minor sat mocking me. any ideas?


Andy

[panky]

Are you sure you're not 180 degrees out on the dizzy, No1 lead position on the cap is usually pointing approximately at No1 plug.

[akuchanny]

It would seem like that is a possibility as using the thumb on cylinder trick has made no 1 plug point towards the starter. I will try roatating the plug leads around and see if that makes a difference tomorrow - weather permitting.


Thanks for the idea. I am starting to go a bit snow blind to the issue now.

Andy

[Beatroot52]

Hi andy

Whereabouts in poplar are you?
Im just at the back of chrisp st, could help if needed.
Dan

[akuchanny]

Hi Dan I am by bartlett park in arcadia street. If your around over the weekend let me know.

[akuchanny]

Okay so I tried rotating the plugs 90 degrees, nothing, then tried every position on the dizzy cap and nothing. checked spark with a spark tester, all plugs are firing. Still have a minor that is a paperweight. Its hugely frustrating. I guess my next step would be to pull the carb?

I am now just running around in circles flattening the battery and having to pull it out for charge after every attempt so I don't kill it.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[bmcecosse]

Simple check is - pour an egg cup of petrol down the carb and crank it - it should run for a few seconds IF lack of fuel is the problem. Is the engine cranking over on the starter at a good speed - or barely turning? These 'high torque' starters need a GOOD battery to work properly. The other 'trick' is to use your jump pack to run the ignition (disconnect it from the battery of course) and so this will give a good 12 volts to the coil - rather than the likely 9 volts when the main battery is cranking the engine.

[akuchanny]

Hi BMC, I will try the fuel in the carb and the jump pack trick. the engine is turning over much more easily, but I am now not sure if the dizzy is cabled properly I have gone back to my orginal poition after putting my thumb over no 1 plug hole but am still chasing my tail.

Andy

[bmcecosse]

The thumb trick will only work if you are handcranking the engine on the handle - if on the starter it will likely run on past TDC before it stops... Why not check properly by observing the valves opening and closing. Obviously - TDC on firing will be with both valves closed and measurable gaps on both valves. The actual TDC point can be seen but putting a straw down the plug hole and watching it move up and down.

[akuchanny]

Hi BMC I was using the handle, I will try the straw version tomorrow. Ill let you know how I get on.

Thanks

Andy

[Beatroot52]

Hi Andy
I'm just round the corner from you, would be more than happy to pop round on sunday morning
Maybe it's the coil...

Dan

[bmcecosse]

Yep - obvious really - dunno how I missed that...

[akuchanny]

Okay so I took a belt and braces apporach today. I took out the dizzy, removed plug 1, took off the rocker cover. Then I roatated the engine on the handle feeling for the piston to come up to top dead center, checked the valves where closed, and looked at the timing marke ( lood to be about 20 to 30 degrees before the tdc marker. Put the dizzy back in - it now wont sit in tightly no matter what I do, checked the clamp tried rotating the arm by 90 degrees then 180 degrees nothing, so put in in loose with the rota arm pointing to cylinder 1. put the rest back together. and tried it. It started and run well. seems happy with the timing mark so far advanced, which worries me slightly, has some smoke form the exhaust, which if it carries on I will investigate. And now need to get the dizzy to lock in position. Any ideas why this would have suddenly become an issue.

Although it was a great feeling to have got the car running again. Although i have lost one rad bolt so that is touching the dog nut so I will have to sort that out tomorrow also, as I dont want to shred the Aluminium rad in the front of the car.

Now just trying to solve this new dizzy issue. Any ideas greatdfully welcomed. I havce already pulled the clamp and tried to spread it out incase that was the issue, but the dizzy still sits proud of the clamp surface and will not lock.

Andy

[Declan_Burns]

It is obviously not fitted correctly. It should push fully home. The little tab at the end of the dizzy is machined off centre so there is only one way it can fit and be pushed fully in. Try taking the dizzy out again and rotate it by 180°. That could be your problem.

Regards
Declan

[bmcecosse]

So it was timing all along.....why on earth did you take the dizzy out? As above - you NEED to get it back in. Ignore 'timing marks' they are a waste of space.