oil on inside of tyre and replacing shoes

[dudload]

morning all!

over the weekend I thought it would be good to tighten the rear brakes as ive noticed significant slippage when applying the handbrake on (fairly moderate) inclines. However, before jacking i noticed that there was an oily deposit on the inside of the outside rear tyre. I proceeded to take the wheel off and the oil was coming out the bottom of the drum and, by the smell and consistency, appeared to be regular oil rather than brake fluid. I then tried to tighten the brakes using the adjusting screw, but could not turn it further clockwise and i was able to rotate by hand in this position.

I assume this means that i need to replace the shoes, but i'm worried by the oil leak (and getting any on the shoes if I do replace them). Anyone got any tips on what to do here? Take it to a professional is a valid answer!

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

Chances are the oil seal or the paper gasket has failed allowing axle oil out. Has the half shaft been disturbed lately? There is also a breather hole that can get blocked with road dirt underseal etc, this allows very small amounts of oil to escape and not get on the shoes. The little hole is visible from the back and is about 1/4' below the axle tube, poke a wee screw driver or something in there to clean it out.

Have you had the drum off to check yet?

[philthehill]

Firstly you need to take the drums off both sides and see what contamination there is.
If it is gear oil you may need to replace the rear hub seal, the 'O' ring and gasket between half-shaft and hub. There are plenty of posts on here showing how to do it or alternatively use a wksp manual.
You may get away with cleaning the brake shoes but that depends upon the level of contamination.
Check the drain hole is clear which can be found behind the brake back-plate under the axle casing.
Has the rear axle been over filled?
Your next move will depend on what you find once the drums are off.
Phil

[dudload]

didn't have the guts to remove the drum - i'm a complete beginner and everything i do on the car is proceeded and preceeded by a post to this forum

i'm willing to give it a go though if it's a relatively straight forward thing to fix - only way i'll learn! half shaft hasn't been disturbed as far as i'm aware.

[philthehill]

I am not trying to put you off from trying to find out what is wrong and rectifying the problem but if you are not confident get a qualified mechanic to do the job as safety critical parts / components are involved.
Phil

[bmcecosse]

The very first thing you need to do is to download a free copy of the Workshop manual - just search for Morris Minor Workshop Manual on Google - it's there. You WILL need new brake shoes. You should check your brake fluid level urgently - in case it is indeed brake fluid that is leaking... To remove the drum you need to slacken back the adjuster - and possibly undo the handbrake cable from the lever on the back of the cylinder, if the cable has been tightened up too much at the handbrake lever. Undo two screws - and pull/twist/gently hammer till it comes off. It's unusual for the half-shaft seal to leak - unless the rear hub bearing is worn - even then - it's held tight by the wheel nuts. And DO look for the little drain hole mentioned above - and poke it clear with a piece of wire. If the hub seal needs renewing (ie the oil is coming from the back of the hub) then you need to undo the nut (LH thread on left side of car) and pull the hub off - lever out the old seal and tap in the new one. Then rebuild in reverse order. It's all in the manual. When you fit new shoes to one side - you should also fit new shoes on the other side.

[dudload]

Thanks bmcecosse,

I'll buy some brake shoes in that case, along with some O rings and gaskets. The master cylinder fluid level is all ok, i checked it after i saw the leak from the rear wheel, but i think i'll take the car over to a garage and ask if I can watch them do the work. Hopefully they wont mind!!

[dudload]

forgot to ask, does anyone know the difference between the 3 sets of rear shoes on ESM? ('regular', 'delphi' and 'mintex'?) i'm assuming mintex are best quality as they're the most expensive, but don't want to jump to conclusions

[NOEL]

I will second one of the previous suggestions, if you are not feeling confident get a garage to look in this case first unless you could get a friend with some experience to help or perhaps a member at your local branch ?
Your safety and others is the most important thing, having said that if you have a minor you will at some point have to get hands on with many things, I replaced my shoes with the regular type and they are absolutely fine, in my experience many garages will not necessarily happily fit a part a customer has brought in so if you are going down the route of buying shoes try and get some help the first time you fit them, downloading a manual or even getting the Haynes one is a good step, there is also some assistance on the internet ,but for me the MMOC dvd " servicing the minor" is a really good aide and one that shows how to do things very clearly

[bmcecosse]

I suggest the Mintex shoes will be a wise investment.

[dudload]

afternoon all!

well i've got round to getting the wheel off to load at the brake shoes and it's an absolute mess (pictures to come) - oil all over the place.

i've taken out the halfshaft to remove the bearing and put in a new bearing seal, o-ring and gasket, but have come up against a problem.

1) How to do I get at the bearing to remove it? There appears to be a big nut (that someone previously has had a go at and warped) but i dont have anything near big enough if i need to remove that

2) the o-ring and paper gasket - do they both go in between the axle shaft joint and the half shaft bit?

[dudload]

picture 1[frame][/frame]

[dudload]

inside of hub - oil central[frame][/frame]

[dudload]

bit of a running battle this one - am currently scratching my head on how to fit the new seal. the current one appears to be sandwiched between two parts of the hub (it looks like it's behind the silver inner ring). it's slightly damaged per the photo below, but how on earth do you remove it to put a new one in?[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Well done getting the hub off..... Just 'dig' it out from the back - but take care to not damage the hub.

[dudload]

thanks Roy!

didn't end up finishing the job as it well over-ran, I didn't have any brake cleaner and need to head off soon. i take it after you dig the old one out you have to squeeze the new seal in? seems a little strange as the oil seal is pretty rigid and i can't imagine it would fit - i guess just a bit of elbow grease?

i take it i need to buy some good brake cleaner to get rid of the oil that's all over the hub (i've bought new shoes and will ditch the old), and to refil the back axle with EP90?

i couldn't find a breather hole to clear at the back either - everything is caked in a half inch of dirt and grease due to the leak - is it at the back of the hub assembly at the bottom?

[bmcecosse]

You can clean with petrol, and finish off with choke/carb cleaner spray or cellulose paint thinner. The old seal must come out complete with the metal backing ring - then the new one just taps in and give it a wipe of grease on the lips. The drain hole is there - low down on the backplate - just below the axle. It's only small - and needs to be poked clear.

[dudload]

still a bit confused about the oil seal - i can't see how it would tap in as at the front (on the picture above) it's sealed in by that silver ring, and at the back the hub is narrower than the seal so can't see how it would be tapped in there either.

ive amended the picture to show the problem as finding it hard to describe.[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Has someone fitted a non-standard seal perhaps. I assume the 'silver ring' is not part of the bearing (perhaps a seal?) left behind. Did the bearing slide out easily? If the bearing is too thick - it won't allow the half shaft to seal tight against the hub face - hence the oil leakage.. Did the oil appear to be leaking at the back of the hub - or at the halfshaft/hub join?

[dudload]

the bearing was a bit of a nightmare to get out - had to be pulled and tapped with a hammer and pole from the other size until it came out. the silver ring isn't part of the bearing - I thought it was part of the hub assembly as it's held in by the small lip around its circumference.

should the silver ring not be there i take it / should it be removed to allow a standard seal to slide in and out?

on the bearing, it wasn't too thick as when i put it back in it fitted almost flush with the face, sitting proud by a tiny amount (which i think it's meant to do?)

there was so much oil inside it was hard to tell what was leaking unfortunately, but i think it's at the back of the hub.