Morris Minor Series 2 - 803cc engine

[soilman]

Hi,
I am being quoted ball park figure up to £2,000 inc vat for total engine rebuild on the above from two different restoration style garages local to me in Essex/Suffolk, seems expensive!
Can anybody recommend anybody?
What would be the going rate?
regards Soilman

[philthehill]

For a total rebuild that is about the going rate.
Why not buy an other 803cc engine or even a 948cc engine and overhaul the original 803cc engine yourself in slow time.
You can get plenty of advice on how to do it on here.

Here is a 803cc unit for consideration:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morris-minor- ... AOSw9HVZf6

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

At that price it is uneconomical to repair; most of the money will be labour charges. If you are reasonably mechanically minded and good at following instructions then a home rebuild would be under £400. You would still have to send the block and crankshaft away for professional attention. But cleaning the block, honing the bores and polishing or regrinding the crankshaft should be well under £100.

Be SURE to consult Declan Burns on here if keeping the 803.

[soilman]

would love to do the job myself, but don't have a garage, no experience at that level and no time at the moment, but one day.

thanks for your reply's

[palacebear]

Kitchen is an adequate workspace. Easy access to the dishwasher too, which is great for cleaning the cylinder head. May cost you a weekend at a health spa though...

[pde2000]

These guys quoted me approx £800 to recon the crankshaft bearings for my sII; http://tkautoengineering.co.uk/
It depends on what needs doing, but as long as you supply the parts then the charge is for labour. They said they had worked on a morris minor recently, but they are not classic car specialists.

The major fault with the 803 is that due to the lack of oil filtration the replaceable bearings have to be white metal, which is soft enough to absorb any bits of crap.

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

Seems an awful lot to me. Have you tried any of the specailist for an exchange engine? This is listed on ESM page so would be well worth contacting them regarding it.

http://www.morrisminorspares.com/engine ... fo-p830457

[oliver90owner]

These guys quoted me approx £800 to recon the crankshaft bearings

What did that include? Removal and replacement of engine? Removal snd replacement of crankshaft? Or just the cost of them taking it to a specialist, collecting after machining (along with bearings and gaskets)? And then doubling the price, of course (they have to make a profit, after all!).

It (the cost) may have been quoted for whatever they might have found (cracks, out of line, worn beyond service limits) so included possible total replacement. Any reduced costs (to them) would simply have increased their profit.

I used to take over the kitchen table, after Mum had retired to bed, to rebuild Anglia/Cortina/Escort engines. Engine would likely be installed in the car before she got up in the morning - including clearing up the loads of newspapers covering the part of the table which was used. No engine stand or hoist, engine just lifted in handraulically with the use of a rope - yep, on my own. No trolley jacks either.

RAB

[philthehill]

I note that the ESM engine is for the block and pistons only and VAT has to be added on top of the quoted price.
As stated by soilman above - no facilities, no in depth skills & no time to do the job - so if the block is purchased from ESM the rebuild would have to be undertaken by at least a competent person.
Taking into account all the rest of the overhaul the final cost is realistically not going to be much short of the £2000 as originally quoted.

The 803cc APHM engine has replaceable composite metal main and big end shells not white metal bearings so the £800 quoted for overhauling the crankshaft (as quoted above) is wide of the mark. If it had white metal bearings which have to be fitted and scraped then £800 would be about right.
Perhaps the firm quoting the £800 got its Morris Minors mixed up or were given the wrong information.

[pde2000]

The £800 quote was for me to give them the car, and they do the rest, and for me to source the parts, gaskets etc. If the crank needed regrinding they would do that too. My local garage, that i trust, would have used tk to do the work, so suggested i go direct to them.

According to the manufacturer the bearing shells are white metal, steel backed (replaceable). I don't know about scraping?

[philthehill]

Thank you for the expanded explanation - the £800 quoted for the job in total is more acceptable.

Con rods having white metal bearings have the white metal cast to the rod and are not removable and they have to be machined and finally scraped to suit the crankshaft.
Pre war Minors used white metal bearings cast onto the rods.
The post war Minor has shell bearings fitted to the mains and big ends which are of a different metal composition to the white metal cast in bearings.
http://www.connellmarketing.co.uk/vande ... page4.html

Glacier/Vandervell (generic terms) type shell bearings are precision formed and do not need to be machined or scraped to suit the crankshaft.

While the term white metal bearings may be used in a generic term there is a difference and that should be acknowledged when talking in engine technical terms.

[pde2000]

All I know is the BMC workshop manual states "shimless, steel backed, white metal lined" for bearing type. Same as the side valve engine, but then the subsequent 948cc engine has "steel backed, lead-bronze, lead-indium plated surface: or steel backed, copper-lead, lead-tin plated surface" The better, newer bearing types were possible because the full-flow filtration of the oil allowed harder surfaced bearing material.

Thanks for telling me about the history of cast bearings, I am glad not to have to deal with that sort of thing.

[philthehill]

pde200
You are right in what it states in the workshop manual for the USHM2 918cc, the APHM 803cc and the APJM/9M 948cc engines in that they are steel backed white metal faced but not full white metal bearings as fitted to the pre war Morris.
One of the very first jobs given to me when I started my apprenticeship was to assist in the fitting of reconditioned con rods with cast in white metal bearings to a very large compressor. They had to be repeatedly fitted and the high spots scraped until the bearing was a perfect fit on the compressor crankshaft.
Thank goodness for modern bearing shells.

[oliver90owner]

I've done a bit of bearing scraping. Sloooww and careful, but they generally are close to tolerance as delivered these days. Biggest was about a metre diameter and about 700mm long - I only had an introductory go at it as the fitters were in a hurry to get the mill back in operation! I just hope I never need to scrape the ways on my lathe and mills as they are much tighter tolerances.

I understand that the white metal was spun in somehow in days long gone, but are cast these days. I have a set of four con rods to do, if I ever need to. 2 3/4" ID x2 1/2" long. Machining the first one will be more difficult to get close to a fit, then easier for the other three! They are not too bad because the caps are shimmed, so quite a bit of leeway for adjustment! Scraped tight for top and bottom and three thou of shims added, basically, for this particular engine (it only turns at 1125rpm).

As I recall, the crankpins had close to a millimetre of ovality, so little surprise the bearings were breaking up!

[soilman]

I have bit the bullet and gone ahead with a local restoration garage , I did check out ESM to see the cost of the parts and it was coming up to over £1000, also spoke to Ivor Searle and that as coming in over £2000 with VAT added.
Thanks for the comments.