Starter Problem

Post by **davecopp** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:27 pm

Some advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have a 1098 engine in my garage which I am trying to run up. Initially I just want it to turn over using the starter motor (I checked all was moving freely). Initially the starter motor was spinning but the bendix wasn't moving to engage the flywheel. After cleaning with petrol I tried it on the floor and it seemed to be moving on the bendix fine. When I put it back on the engine and fired it up the pinion crunched into the starter ring and stayed there. Before doing any of this I noticed there was wear on the edges of the teeth of the flywheel so I wasn't entirely shocked when it didn't engage smoothly. My question is should there be any wear on the edges of the flywheel ring gear and if not how difficult is it to change the ring gear (or should I change the whole flywheel)? I was going to take the bendix apart because I'm still not happy that it spins back and fore as well as it should, however the manual says to take off the cotter pin and the bolt but mine have neither so I can't see how to dismantle it.

Thanks in advance
Dave

Post by **philthehill** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:03 pm

The teeth of the flywheel even when new have a lead in but you do seem to have excessive wear on the ring gear teeth.
The ring gear is relatively easy to change provided you can heat the ring gear up to slip over the flywheel ring gear seat.
It needs more than just putting in the domestic oven.
Changing the flywheel complete with new or good ring gear is the easiest.
As regards the bendix - what is the condition of the Bendix teeth?
You will need a special tool to compress the Bendix spring and then ease out the wire clip, then after undoing the spring compressor you will be able to examine, clean or replace the Bendix.
Do not attempt to remove the Bendix without the special spring compression tool as there is a lot of energy stored in the spring and there is a high chance of injury if the tool is not used.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=start ... 6172046098

Post by **davecopp** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:52 pm

Thanks Phil
To my untrained eye the bendix teeth don't seem too bad. Many years ago I seem to recall putting candle wax on the bendix to make it run more smoothly - was this right or is my memory playing tricks with me.
I attach photos of the teeth.

Dave

Post by **philthehill** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:07 pm

Dave
Many thanks for posting the photos of the Bendix which looks alright and to be serviceable.
Candle wax should be alright as it will not trap the dust and lead to a sticking Bendix.
The Bendix should not be oiled because it will trap the dust.
Phil

Post by **davecopp** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:23 pm

Thanks Phil. Much appreciated.

Do you think it's the ring gear that's causing it to crunch in?

Dave

Post by **philthehill** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:28 pm

Try the Bendix manually into the ring gear and see what happens.
The condition of the ring gear is not helping and personally I would be replacing it.

Post by **davecopp** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:43 pm

Thanks Phil. I'll look at it again tomorrow.
Dave

Post by **edd_barker** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:19 pm

Any engineering firm/reconditioners should be able to replace the ring gear for you. I had a new one fitted to mine and flywheel refaced for £40 plus the vat locally to me.

Post by **davecopp** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:22 pm

Thanks Edd

Post by **davecopp** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:31 pm

The bendix can be turned to go into the gear ring but not easily and it doesn't easily come out again. I've tried filing about 25 teeth on the gear ring and that has helped it go in and out significantly on those teeth. But I do have to physically turn it out. Should the spring on the bendix be enough to bring it out on its own or does the action of the flywheel turning under normal operation help to push it out? I agree the ring gear needs to be changed but I'm reluctant to do so until I know what condition the rest of the engine is in.

Post by **philthehill** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:06 pm

The starter Bendix should fly out of its own accord.
I would suggest that you file the rest of the teeth and those that you have already done so as to allow the Bendix to flow in and out of the teeth without sticking or hesitation.

Post by **davecopp** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:25 pm

Thanks Phil. I will file all the teeth but I think I will have to take the bendix apart as there doesn't seem to be enough spring in it. I'll get a spring compressor.

Post by **philthehill** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:33 pm

The main spring has no discernible springing and you would be hard pressed to compress the spring.

Post by **davecopp** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:11 am

When I manually turn it on the bendix (against the resistance of the (restraining ?) spring) the spring doesn't return it all the way back to its starting point. Is the 'restraining spring' responsible for returning it to the start position? What is the purpose of the 'main spring'?
Thanks

Post by **philthehill** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:55 am

I would suggest that the Bendix is sticking on the coarse acme (square profile) threaded centre piece.
For the purpose of this exercise I would clean the Bendix in petrol or brake cleaner and then lubricate with a thin oil or WD40 or similar and see how you get on.
Clean all oil off and in the Bendix before using with the engine fitted for the reasons stated above.
The main heavy duty spring is to take the shock loading when the starter engages with the flywheel and starts to rotate the engine.
Centrifugal force should return the Bendix to it out of use position.

Post by **davecopp** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:44 pm

Thanks Phil
I've cleaned it again as best I could with petrol and cotton buds then used WD40 but it still doesn't spring back consistently. I assume that either there is dirt underneath the barrel where I can't get to it or the spring inside is showing its age. I think my best bet is to dismantle it. What do you think?

Post by **mogbob** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:26 pm

It does sound as though the return spring has "lost it's mo jo ". Once temporarily , lubricated , the Bendix should snap back when you engage it manually by running it down the palm of your hand. Releasing the pressure should let the spring do it's work and return it to the resting position with a " snap ".
As has been pointed out don't attempt the Bendix removal with out the correct tool and do use due care. If the shaft , with Bendix removed , is rusty / tarnished , get it back to clean metal before reassembling.
Bob

Post by **davecopp** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:49 pm

Thanks Bob. It's certainly not snapping back. I'll get a spring compressor as advised.

Post by **philthehill** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:08 am

If you do purchase a starter motor Bendix spring compressor - make sure that you get the right one.
There are two sizes No: 366 & No: 376.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Starter-Motor-Ar ... 1430842478

The size of the hole in the centre of the spring compressor suitable for your Bendix is 28.5mm.

Found one for you:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Starter-motor ... SwJwpZv3-c

Low start price too.

The return spring is listed below.

http://www.jcrsupplies.co.uk/products/S ... c3275.html

The company above may be able to give you a lead as to where a new Bendix spring compressor may be purchased if you are not successful bidding for the one above.

Post by **davecopp** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:15 pm

Thanks Phil.
It's very kind of you to put things on a plate for me. Much appreciated.
I've bid on the one you recommended but shocked to see the other one went for £43!
Best wishes
Dave

Morris Minor Owners Club

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