universal joints

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robandsophie
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universal joints

Post by robandsophie »

Hi,

I need to replace UV joint at gearbox end of prop, taken it out (with much cursing) however the replacement is smaller than original. The caps look like they fit right, it is the actual centre piece that is smaller.
Does this matter or are they stand size now??

Rob
mogbob
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Re: universal joints

Post by mogbob »

Rob
Where did you source the UJ from and was it sold as Morris Minor part ?
Have you checked that all the vital measurements ,width , depth and diameter of the cups , etc are the same as your " original ?

Am I right in assuming that you are referring to the " bulk " on the forged " cross " central piece not being as large as the original ? What brand is the replacement UJ ? You don't want the UJ disintergrating at speed.
You did mark the flanges at either end , so that it can go back with the same orientation ?
Bob
robandsophie
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Re: universal joints

Post by robandsophie »

Hi Bob,

Bought from ESM, they only have one on their website. Powerline RGUJ115 just looked it up - its for MGB/Midget, didn't think to check :oops: I'm guess that is why is different. Unless they fit minors??
Marked diff to prop, prop to gearbox had already been marked. what difference if not put back as mark??

Thanks

Rob
philthehill
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Re: universal joints

Post by philthehill »

ESM Joint:-
http://www.morrisminorspares.com/rear-s ... le-p831259

After doing a search:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUJ101-MGB-M ... Swl-BZsTJC

RGUJ115 is listed as Morris Minor and others - see link below.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGB-MIDGET-H ... Sw1S9Wephy

GUJ101 is listed for MGB 1962 - 1980.

The same size universal joint can fit a variety of vehicles and of different engine sizes.

StillGotMy1stCar
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Re: universal joints

Post by StillGotMy1stCar »

You appear to have the correct UJ. To compare sizes you need to push the cups home making sure a needle or two hasn’t popped out and lying across the inside of the cup. The centre cross casting will most likely look different between manufacturers.
I’ve Just had a look online at the powerline UJ images but could only find powertune and it looks man enough and ESM must be happy with the quality, does yours look smaller?

Regards John
Last edited by StillGotMy1stCar on Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mogbob
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Re: universal joints

Post by mogbob »

Rob
If you put back the propshaft back in a different orientation there is a possibility ( not a certainty ) that it will be " out of balance " and set up vibration. A bit like balancing weights on car wheels. You sometimes see weights welded to the propshaft or sometimes a jubilee clip or two.
Bob
robandsophie
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Re: universal joints

Post by robandsophie »

Hi All,

Well the damn things won't go fully back! 2mm out meaning I cannot get the clips to sit in grooves. I have taken back out no loose pins causing problem. The new joint measures up against the old one.
I can only think I have bent the prop head inward by that amount when I was hammering away (as a couple of the bearing cups were real swines to get out).
If I heat it and bend outward is this going to weaken the whole thing??

Thanks as always for any advice

Rob
Mark Wilson
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Re: universal joints

Post by Mark Wilson »

Rob, it''s not often I admit defeat, but I got to the same stage and took mine to my local prop shaft specialist who sorted it with new UJ''s and balanced it for £35 including VAT.

Mark
philthehill
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Re: universal joints

Post by philthehill »

Do not heat and bend - replace the prop shaft.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morris-Minor ... Sw30JbKTFU

StillGotMy1stCar
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Re: universal joints

Post by StillGotMy1stCar »

Before you admit defeat. You may not have closed up the yoke by hammering. I would think you’d notice if yoke was closed up by 2mm before fitting the UJ.
Check the edges of the circlip recess have no burrs. Fit one circlip first then using a vice and socket push the opposite cup to butt the cup up to the circlip you’ve just fitted, you should have enough clearance to fit the second circlip it may need to be tapped in lightly.
It is essential that the circlips have seated correctly.
If you’ve not got a vice it can be done with a G-clamp although it is more difficult.
If the Yokes are bent or damaged then for safety’s sake take Phil’s advice and buy another prop shaft.
Regards John
robandsophie
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Re: universal joints

Post by robandsophie »

Thanks everyone for advice.
I'm going to have another look, if it still looks like I have inadvertently bent the thing :oops: , I will get new prop.
Cheers

Rob
oliver90owner
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Re: universal joints

Post by oliver90owner »

robandsophie wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:43 pm ... 2mm out meaning I cannot get the clips to sit in grooves. I have taken back out no loose pins causing problem.... when I was hammering away (as a couple of the bearing cups were real swines to get out)....
Never hammer to remove cups - use a press or vise. Same with refitting. I would be checking carefully - the needle rollers are usually about 2mm in diameter.
robandsophie
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Re: universal joints

Post by robandsophie »

Okay so I have got 3 circlips in now! 4th just will not recess in at all.
Also the joint moves but feels tight is correct? The diff end (original, moves freely).
I spoke to local garage - said might be able to heat yoke up and bend out slightly, is this ok?

Rob
philthehill
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Re: universal joints

Post by philthehill »

I will repeat what I said above:-
Do not heat and bend..................Get a good S/H propshaft. Cheaper and much much safer.

I am not being alarmist when I say that if the propshaft front U/J breaks the front of the propshaft could dig into the road and flip the car :oops:

Normally when the joint is fully assembled you have to seat the bearing cups back against the circlips and that removes any stiffness from the U/J.

robandsophie
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Re: universal joints

Post by robandsophie »

Okay new prop shaft then :cry:
That'll learn me.
IslipMinor
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Re: universal joints

Post by IslipMinor »

Rob,

Before replacing the prop, make absolutely sure that a needle roller is not out of position, which is stopping the end cap from going right in - very common!!
Richard


StillGotMy1stCar
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Re: universal joints

Post by StillGotMy1stCar »

Bad luck Rob, I thought it was worth another try.
Not that it matters now, but you can add more grease to hold the needles in place, as we have said they can fall and sit across the top of the cup.
Regards John.
oliver90owner
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Re: universal joints

Post by oliver90owner »

I am in total agreement with IslipMinor. I suspect the OP is not going about the problem in the most sensible way and is displacing at least a single needle roller when refitting.

One trick, the OP is likely missing, is to fit the spider to the first cup and then press that cup as far through the yoke as practicable, thus leaving as much room for fitting the second cup, thus reducing the chances of a needle roller being displaced at the initial engagement.

I’ve done umpteen replacements over the years and displaced needles is the only problem I have encountered after the initial problem of removing rusted circlips. Most I have replaced have been well greased (power take off shafts on agricultural machinery) and are really a quite straight forward operation - once dismantled.
ianmack
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Re: universal joints

Post by ianmack »

Rob, fortunately used prop shafts are plentiful and not valuable. I came across one clearing my shed recently and you’re welcome to it if you can collect it (I’m in Hampshire). It is probably too big and low value for posting.
robandsophie
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Re: universal joints

Post by robandsophie »

Hi,

Well I took the UJ out from the other end of the prop shaft and tried the new UJ in this. Nope doesn't fit! I have definitely not bent this end! Still slightly over sized by about 1 mm. No hammering involved, used a vice with big socket and little socket.
And no I have not dislodge a needle roller (that was my first thought), I pack the bearing with grease to prevent this happening.
So either I do not have a Morris Minor prop, or the joint has been manufactured just slightly out. Or both ends have been bent previously.

So... Ian if you wish to make some space in your garage i would gladly take the prop off you. I will PM you.

Rob
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